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Making Sports Radio Better: Tackling The Issue of Diversity

Jason Barrett

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To make things better in life and business, we often have to tackle difficult subjects and be willing to engage in conversations that make us flinch. As a former programmer, I was taught to avoid three subjects which can divide an audience – race, religion, and politics. While I agree that those topics can be divisive in everyday sports talk conversation, I don’t think those subjects should be avoided when they apply to the progress or lack thereof in our format.

progress-is-a-processFor some in the media industry, this column will serve as a breath of fresh air and make them feel inspired to have deeper dialogue on ways to evolve our people and brands. For others, this trip into the land of the uncomfortable is going to make them uneasy and maybe even angry or dismissive. But it’s necessary.

Sharing our views on a subject such as race is often perceived as dangerous. Why? Because it’s a topic that gets people’s emotions stirred and when information is lacking or revealed, it can make us look uninformed, irresponsible or agenda driven.

While it may be complex and make the hairs on our necks stand up, it’s a conversation that shouldn’t be ignored when it comes to sports radio. We’re all adults and it’s 2015 not 1865. Anyone who works in this format should understand that we benefit more by reaching the entire audience, not just select demographics. You can’t do that though by only providing one side of the conversation.

Since the sports talk format was created thirty years ago, it’s been heavily targeted to white males between the ages of 25-54. Part of that stems from white audiences being more interested in the content. Some is a result of on-air lineups and station management being heavily caucasian and refusing to step outside of their comfort zones.

davidrobertsESPN Audio’s Vice President of Network Content David Roberts says those realities extend beyond the media business: “In many industries there’s still this comfort level to pick people who we identify most with. Diversity means being willing to listen to ideas and surround yourself with people who look, think, and act different than you do. If someone can bring a different perspective and help a company improve, then it only makes sense to explore hiring them.”

Although the format has grown, there are many sports stations today that don’t deliver big ratings. In some cases, brands finish between 10th and 20th place, and reach only 2-3% of the Male 25-54 audience. Yet, that is considered a success. To play devil’s advocate, one could argue that 97-98% of Men 25-54 DID NOT listen to those stations/personalities. It’s really hard to use the word ‘success’ when you look at it that way.

So why do sports stations struggle to generate bigger numbers? Is it because the programming is predictable? Is it due to a steady presence on AM radio which younger people listen less to? Is it because of poor measurement? Or is something else happening that prevents the format from reaching the largest pool of people?

That ‘something’ I’m referring to is a lack of diversity on the air. And let’s be clear, that doesn’t mean black personalities – it means Black, Asian, Hispanic, Indian, every ethnic background that is non-white.

I’ve programmed in San Francisco, Philadelphia, and St. Louis – three different pockets of the country, and in each case, the percentages of white males to non-white males who listened were between 70-90% white, and 10-30% non-white. There are a few markets where the percentages are different, but overall, this is a regular trend.

What that tells us is that the content appeals to a select group of people (white males 25-54). Attracting interest from minority audiences remains a bigger challenge.

stewOne of the first diverse shows to expand the audience in a local market were the “2 Live Stews” who broadcasted on the now defunct 790 The Zone in Atlanta. Doug and Ryan Stewart were the hosts, and they debuted in 2001 and grew from late evenings, to mid-days, to afternoon drive, and became The Zone’s highest rated show. That led to appearances on ESPN, a show on ESPN2, a syndication deal with Radio One, and a national slot on Sporting News Radio.

Despite all of that success, the pair have had a tough time gaining another opportunity in Atlanta, or anywhere else for that matter. They currently host a 1-hour program on Saturday morning on WGST in Atlanta.

Doug said “The diversity in Sports Radio almost 15 years after the debut of the “2 Live Stews” is very disappointing. We were lauded for being the first (all) black show in sports radio history and you’d think it would open up doors right? Not. We don’t have a job (or real interest for that matter) and not many other black hosts have been given opportunities either. Factor in that just about all of our station contemporaries are working in the industry, and add to the equation the “verifiable” success that we had concerning numbers and national success, and it’s disheartening to say the least.”

audiencesIt’s common to gravitate to those who think and sound like us and share a similar upbringing. When we hear someone speak differently and approach topics from an unfamiliar place, we usually reject it. What makes that problematic is that for someone like myself, who’s 41 and a white male, I can still put on a sports radio station and hear 80-90% of people who I stand a chance to connect with. For a minority listener though, they’re treated to 15% of people who share a similar background. That means that if they want to listen to sports talk, they have to listen to hosts who they may identify with less. The only other option is to not listen at all.

I went through the top 20 markets and the stations in each of those cities that operate this format. I also analyzed 5 national sports networks and SiriusXM’s key sports channels to look at the total amount of regular weekday on-air personalities who are white vs. non-white. I’m not including update anchors, fill-in hosts or reporters – just the people who occupy positions M-F between 6a-Midnight.

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Now take a look below at each market’s demographics and how they compare to the talent mix in each city.

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For additional observations on the information I presented above, click the following link.

Key Takeaways

If you were to create a headline from the data above, it would say “sports radio stations over deliver on white personalities and under deliver on non-white personalities“. 85% of the on-air people in this study were white. That’s 22% higher than the percentage of people in these cities who fit the same description. The only demographic in line with its statistics are African Americans. They make up 15% of the population among the Top 20 cities, and are represented by 14% of Black on-air personalities.

What’s more alarming is the shortage of Hispanics who are hosting sports talk shows. I counted five in top 20 markets and across all national platforms. That means only 1% of our key on-air talent are Hispanic, yet they make up 22% of the population in these markets. Hispanics love sports as much as everyone else, and they are a larger group of people than even African Americans. Still, they are the most underrepresented group in our entire format.

Altogether, minorities (Black and Hispanic) represent 37% of the population in these cities but only 15% of the format’s On-Air personalities come from minority backgrounds. This is a major issue that needs to be corrected, but it’s one that I’m not sure we’re prepared right now to fix. Here’s why. Did you know that of the entire list of stations above in top 20 markets, only 1 has a Program Director who isn’t a white male (Terry Foxx at 92.9 The Game in Atlanta)? If you look at the 5 national sports networks, only ESPN Radio employs a minority Programmer (David Roberts). They also employ two female programmers (Amanda Gifford and Louise Cornetta). No other network does that.

If we expect to expand our thinking, and reach more people, it has to start up top. I’m not privy to the braintrust of each group and why they make the decisions that they do, but the disparity I see on the air is not in line with the makeup of the audience. If you look deeper, the same challenges exist with market manager positions, corporate executive jobs, and ownership. In the NFL, the Rooney Rule was introduced to encourage organizations to consider candidates who weren’t white. I’m not sure if that type of approach is necessary or if it would even work, but clearly something has to be done.

As true as it may be that we have work to do in hiring minority managers and on-air talent, there is also a problem with getting them interested in our business, especially Hispanics. That doesn’t mean there aren’t great non-white candidates out there who are worth investing in, but the options to choose from are definitely less.

maddogIn May 2014, Chris “Mad Dog” Russo addressed this subject on his national radio program when a caller asked him why his channel didn’t feature any minority personalities. He said “What would you like us to do? There are not a million candidates. Would you like us to put on a black host for the sake of putting a person on? If there is any person of any ethnicity who wants to get a job at ‘Mad Dog Radio’ and we feel he or she is capable of doing a national talk show at the highest level, I’d put them on in a second. Let’s just say we are not being overwhelmed by resumes.”

Although Russo’s comments were originally criticized, I appreciated his honesty. My only issue was that while he was absolutely right about a lack of interest, the solution is to go out and find people, not wait for them to find us. Most personalities don’t know the challenges that exist inside each radio company, and it’s the Program Director’s job to find talent, bring them in, coach them up, and give them the platform to display their skills.

To their credit, Mad Dog Radio solved the issue by partnering with ESPN Radio. That relationship resulted in Stephen A. Smith joining the channel and becoming the host of weekdays 1p-3p EST. As part of the agreement, ESPN Radio produces the program.

sasWhen Smith was initially named host of the program he said “I’m not just able to help myself but various African Americans within the radio industry that are looking for opportunities. I’ve got to be a trendsetter and make it happen because if I drop the ball, I not only drop the ball for me but I drop the ball for all of us.”

He’s probably right, and that in itself saddens me. No person should have to go to work feeling like they have the weight of an entire race on their shoulders. Can you imagine if a white on-air personality was faced with that responsibility and their success or failure determined whether or not other companies would employ future white hosts?

We can talk about these problems until we’re blue in the face but what our industry needs now are solutions. For starters, there should be a stronger emphasis on training and recruiting. It’s easy to tell a manager “go hire great people and get us ratings” but most radio stations don’t talk to their managers about the importance of being diverse, nor do they show them why it matters or how to find candidates from different backgrounds. If nobody else inside an operation thinks it’s critical, and the programmer is judged on their ability to deliver ratings, they’re not going to care as much about the makeup of a lineup, as they are its ability to produce results. They’re also more likely to surround themselves with people they relate to.

I asked a Program Director (who wished to remain anonymous) about this issue and he confirmed that it’s a problem. “I’d love to say that I’ve done a good job at promoting diversity but the truth is that I can do better and probably need to focus on this more than I have in the past. We can place blame on a lack of training but that’s a cop out. The bigger issue I believe is simply having a discussion about it. Very few people want to talk about race. I think it’s only natural for people in my position to hire talent who they connect with most. Our audience comes from a similar place. But to your point, we’re not going to grow the audience if we don’t make hiring minority talent a bigger priority and it all starts with increasing dialogue”.

Early in my career when I first started programming, building a diverse radio station wasn’t on my radar. I went to work, listened for great talent, reviewed the candidates that applied for an opening, and made decisions based on what I felt was good. However, when I built 101 ESPN in St. Louis, I took a different approach. I made a real conscious effort to make sure we had a unique mix of people to reach the entire community. I wanted younger personalities, and veterans. Male and Female. White and Non-White.

dftsDuring that time I hired D’Marco Farr and the late Bryan Burwell in weekday positions. I also hired Alvin Reid and Rene Knott as weekend hosts, Tony Softli as a Reporter, Rick Venturi as an Analyst/Host, Sara Dayley as an Anchor, and Michelle Smallmon as a Producer. The brand was unique and full of talented people from multiple backgrounds and together we enjoyed a lot of success.

In San Francisco I took a similar approach. NFL Network personality Eric Davis was part of our initial afternoon show with Brandon Tierney. As we grew I added others to the roster from different backgrounds including Henry Wofford, Daryle “The Guru” Johnson, Gianna Franco, Anna Kagarakis, Lorenzo Neal, and a program called “The Three Amigos” which featured Victor Zaragoza who was Mexican, and Rudy Ortiz and Brandon Santiago who were Hispanic.

While my previous two stations took diversity into account, and did a good job of making it important to the programming mix, one could still argue that we didn’t do enough. I can’t disagree but I can say that we did try and put a lot of thought into every decision we made.

espnradioOne group which I believe did a masterful job at making their programming more diverse recently is ESPN Radio. Dan Le Batard, Jorge Sedano, Bomani Jones, and Freddie Coleman are all non-white and talented, and they’ve been given the same chance to succeed on the network as Mike Greenberg, Mike Golic, Jon Weiner, Ryen Russillo, Danny Kanell and Jen Lada. Traug Keller, Mo Davenport, David Roberts, Amanda Gifford, Pete Gianesini, Ray Necci, Louise Cornetta and every other ESPN Radio manager who was involved in the talent process deserves to be applauded for taking steps to create change.

I asked Roberts how the hiring process worked and he said “We never select numbers for how many people will be given a position based on their background. As long as you operate by making sure that the best talent available is selected, then the principles and impact of diversity will take care of itself. The wider you make the net, the better chance you have at success. The more narrow the pool, the less likely you are to succeed.”

Let’s understand one really important thing on this subject. Just because a white personality hosts a show, doesn’t mean they can’t relate or connect with an African American or Hispanic listener. The same holds true for any minority host trying to connect with a white audience. If the content is great, and the topic, information, and opinion is intriguing, people will listen to it. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive to provide a better mix of on-air talent so we can appeal to all demographics.

To get a better read on the challenges our industry faces with regards to diversity, I thought it’d be helpful to talk to some non-white personalities who I respect a great deal. I think you’ll find this conversation to be very enlightening. Change can only happen when we recognize a problem and care enough to fix it. If a few people in our format in positions of influence read this and are moved to re-evaluate their approach and commitment to diversity, then that’ll be a step in the right direction. From where I sit, we could all benefit a great deal from it.

  • Jorge Sedano – Host of “Jorge & Jen” on ESPN Radio
  • Carl Dukes – Host of “Dukes & Bell” on 92.9 The Game in Atlanta
  • Newy Scruggs – Host of “Voices of The Game” on NBC Sports Radio
  • Freddie Coleman – Host of “The Freddie Coleman Show” on ESPN Radio
  • Carrington Harrison – Co-Host of “The Drive” on 610 Sports in Kansas City
  • Sean Adams – Co-Host of “The Bottom Line” on AM 1300 The Zone in Austin

How do you feel about the balance in sports radio today as it applies to presenting diverse on-air personalities and programming?

Adams: I don’t think it is diverse at all. People might look at the raw numbers and say things are better but many members of the mainstream media who also write and do television, are still pulled from a very homogeneous group of white men that lack the the most important part of diversity, experience.

Sedano: I think a market or a network should reflect its communities. At ESPN Radio, we have done a great job with diversity. Look at our weekday lineup. Mike & Mike, Dan Le Batard, Ryen Russillo & Danny Kanell, Bomani Jones, Jalen Rose & Dave Jacoby, Freddie Coleman, Jen Lada and myself. It’s a reflection of our society. That’s a testament to our leadership at ESPN, Traug Keller, Mo Davenport and Dave Roberts. They look for the most talented group of hosts who can provide different perspectives. It’s what the medium was built on – different perspectives.

carldukes2Dukes: I don’t think there is a balance. When you look around at the major market radio companies and stations and the major dayparts on those brands, how many African American are hosting shows? The balance is still very inadequate when you talk about sports radio today and how it applies to presenting diverse on-air personalities and programming.

Harrison: There is no racial balance in sports radio today. Look at the Talkers Top 100 list from any year, and count the number of non white people on that list. An even better exercise, count the number of non-white non athletes on the list. Sports talk radio is a middle aged white male platform so the hosts reflect that and largely speak from that relatable point of view and connect with the intended audience.

Is it better, the same, or worse than it was 10 years ago?

JorgeSedanoSedano: I came from Miami where 50% of the radio listening audience is Hispanic. When I worked in Miami there were only 3 Hispanic hosts in the weekday lineups. LeBatard, Orlando Alzugaray and myself. Now my ESPN colleague and long time friend Israel Gutierrez is doing drive time in Miami. 25% of Miami is African American. There are only three African American hosts on weekdays in Miami. Joy Taylor is a morning host on the Ticket, Leroy Hoard does middays there and Channing Crowder does afternoons on WQAM. There are 4 sports stations in Miami. The number of ethnic hosts don’t reflect the community there enough. I can say the same for most markets in America. For that matter, I can say the same for some radio networks as well.

Dukes: It is certainly better. Some doors have been opened for minorities but it’s still not as good as it should be. I think it has a lot more to do with guys like myself, the 2 Live Stews, Terry Foster in Detroit, and others having success when they do receive an opportunity. I’m a big believer that you have to see it to believe it. Once people can see us doing well, it will give more of them the courage to pursue their dreams too.

Scruggs: It’s better because you get to hear shows with hosts like Bomani Jones, Steve Kim, the 2 Live Stews or Mike Hill. You can actually give points and opinions from a minority perspective and not be afraid you’ll be pulled off the air. Some PD’s don’t want you to sound too “urban”, the code word.

Coleman: Definitely better because there are more minorities who are a part of sports talk radio. For the longest time, there weren’t any to listen to nationally or locally.

In sports radio, many of the on-air talent who aren’t white, have a background in professional sports. Why do you believe that stations will take a chance on a former athlete but not as much on an individual from a different background who is simply well educated or a good broadcaster?

seanadamsAdams: Historically those from non-white backgrounds have had to have more credibility than their white counterparts. In some ways it worked almost like television where one was the play by play (radio guy) and one was the color. Non-whites filled the second role and their credibility came from former players.

Sedano: I’m not in those other guys heads so I can only speak for myself. I was the PD/Host at WQAM for one year (Sept 2012-Aug 2013). In that time, I put on Channing Crowder who played in the NFL, and on the weekends I hired Ed Freeman & Jeff Fox who were broadcasters. I tried to hire Bomani Jones. I texted him once to gauge his interest, but he had bigger things on the horizon. Obviously, we see what that was.

It’s easier to hire a former jock because they have name value. It takes more of an investment to give a broadcaster that same opportunity. Most PD’s are under pressure to produce ratings and help sales staffs to meet numbers. So they don’t want to invest the time and effort it takes to coach a good, young broadcaster.

Dukes: The reason why is because the formula has always been that you needed a former professional athlete on the station to attract an audience. I don’t believe that formula is true anymore. My partner (Mike Bell) and I here in Atlanta didn’t play professional sports and we’re doing well. Toucher & Rich in Boston and Ben & Skin in Dallas are doing excellent and they didn’t play the game. I’ve worked with numerous former athletes, including Kordell Stewart here at The Game, and as knowledgeable as they are about the game, sometimes they can be limited in what they’re willing to say or do.

Scruggs: PD’s like names and get fooled all the time when athletes want to get into radio. The person hiring thinks they hit a 2-run homer: a former local player AND he’s black/Latino. Most players don’t want to put in the work that it takes to do sports radio at a high level. That is not a shot but it’s something I have seen.

Why is it important for sports stations to feature personalities who come from different backgrounds?

Dukes: That’s what life is all about. We should all strive to see what’s out there. When you include different cultures and ethnicities, then you can respect things more when certain stories come up. For example, when the Adrian Peterson story blew up last year, two white guys from Iowa discussing that topic versus an African-American with the same cultural experience, is a different deal. That viewpoint is going to be different and I think that’s beneficial and important to sports radio. As society continues to change, and we are truly one big melting pot, I think it’s important that listeners and fans get to hear as many perspectives as possible.

Scruggs: Just look at the world we live in. It’s important to bring viewpoints from women, gays, minorities and people of different faith. The world has changed.

carringtonHarrison: Talk radio is such a different type of medium because so much of your personality, upbringing, culture, background, and religious beliefs come out in how you portray your opinions. Since when is having different voices (not just black males) but a woman’s perspective too a bad thing? Can’t they provide a view that I don’t have? Isn’t that the point of open discussion?

If all the personalities are largely the same and essentially at the same point in life (married, two kids, house, etc.), how is the conversation ever truly unique? That’s not representative of the entire audience. I’m a 27 single black male, and on some levels it is impossible for me to relate to the middle aged white male, but doesn’t my story and the story of people like me also deserve to be heard?

Coleman: Because everybody isn’t the same and I’ve always believed that you don’t have to like people from different backgrounds, but you should be able to understand the differences. To me if you don’t, then you have a completely narrow view. Not every white person thinks the same, but a host has to understand, no matter their color or background, that understanding has to play a part.

If the majority of listening is done by white males between 25-54, and they relate strongly to white hosts in the same demographic, why should a company executive alter their approach?

Adams: Those same white males enjoy watching sports that are largely minority and the value of the diversity in former players (of any level) lends credibility to said host.

Sedano: Why wouldn’t you want to grow your audience beyond white males between 25-54? Are executives afraid that the white male audience will not be retained if there is a minority host? I think that’s a bit presumptuous. Good content is good content. People want good content. 

Dukes: A lot of guys are afraid to alter their approach because they’re afraid that people won’t listen. My approach has always been that I need everyone to listen to win. I am not solely dedicated to having just African Americans listen. I want the husband, the wife, the sports fan, the fringe fan, no matter what they look like, or where they come from, I need all of those people to win.

I never try to delegate my style or my delivery to one type of individual. I hope the audience likes who I am and what I do but I’m not trying to do something to attract a certain type of individual. How does it sound? Is it smart? Is it intelligent? Is it entertaining? If it checks those boxes, then it shouldn’t matter what you look like because people will listen, and that should be the reason why an executive should be receptive to altering their approach.

newy2Scruggs: So it’s OK to bring in the ex minority ballplayer for pre and postgame coverage of the station’s games but keep the host white so you don’t offend the white audience? That is hooey and 1990’s type of thinking. We live in a country where the voting public is overwhelming white and a black man was elected President of the United States twice. There are many talented non white male broadcasters that can bring compelling sports talk to the airwaves.

What is the #1 reason in your opinion of why stations struggle to employ more non-white on-air talent? (is it a lack of interest from minority candidates, programmers afraid to leave their comfort zone, listening audiences won’t listen as much, etc.)

Adams: Not only are programmers afraid to leave their comfort zones but they are also uncomfortable with communication styles and patterns that might work against non-traditional forms of diction and odd usage. Stuart Scott was popular and hated for a reason. He was different. That scares people.

carldukes3Dukes: This is traditionally a white male dominated field. It’s slowly changing though. When we can stop saying there’s one minority candidate on a sports station in an entire market occupying a major daypart as a lead host, that’s when we can say we’ve made real progress. Most stations are afraid that the listening audience won’t connect if they feature more non-white personalities, and I disagree with that. I think you connect through your experiences and your likes about sports and real life. I have children, I’m a homeowner, I own a car, I enjoy restaurants, those things apply no matter what you look like or where you come from.

We need to get past what a person looks like, and think about what they offer to the radio station and the listening audience. Here in Atlanta it’s very unique. Terry Foxx is the Program Director and Sean Thompson is the Assistant Program Director and both are African American. That dynamic isn’t anywhere else in the country, but it should be. But those doors haven’t opened as much. None the less, because there are not enough minorities

Scruggs: Sports radio PD’s are on par with baseball. I saw it two years ago when there was pushback from executives on a black talk show host who had strong opinions. The GM identified him as an up and coming young talent. The GM also had a young white writer with strong sports opinions who he felt was also an up and coming young radio talent. He wanted to hire both but he listened to his staff’s opinion instead of his gut.

The white male ended up getting a show and they passed on the black candidate. The black candidate now has a successful national show and has blown up with a different network. The white male has been very good and performed well, just like the GM predicted. The station could have had both.

Harrison: Lack of effort. Lack of development. Lack of trying. Everyone wants a job like this. You get to talk sports for a living. Sure like any job it comes with a certain set of challenges but it’s an incredible line of work. It’s what I always wanted to do. It requires someone taking a chance and believing that you can do it. More PDs have to believe that someone like me is capable of connecting with a large audience. It takes time and patience.

How do you feel non-white personalities are measured in sports radio?

Adams: It’s no different than what we see with non-white coaches being hired. While it is getting better in all parts of society, a smaller margin for error is usually in place.

Sedano: I can only speak to my own experience. Once you’re in the business, it’s the same. You have to make it on your own talent and some good fortune. Don’t get it twisted. We all need a few bounces to go our way in any walk of life. Especially, in this business. The issue for minorities is getting in the business. 

freddie1Coleman: I would say under the microscope more, but not as much as before. I think there are plenty of programmers that look at ratings and that’s enough. I could be wrong though.

Scruggs: You don’t see any minorities getting manager jobs without experience. Ain’t no Latino, Asian or Black Brad Ausmus’ or Scott Servais’. I’ll always remember this one guy told me in an email I was simply hired because I was black. Little did he know I had a longer resume and worked in a larger market than all of the white hosts who were at the station that he felt were more qualified than I was.

What do you attribute the lack of non-white station managers and programmers to?

Adams: Many folks in executive positions in radio stations studied radio, broadcast and television in college and planned on being in the industry on one way or another. Many non-whites join the industry trying to figure out a way to leverage their expertise and playing or coaching history. That leaves the technical side of the job wanting in most cases.

jorgeSedano: Most people hire people like them. We see it in all walks of life. I’ve had all different people manage me. White, African American, Hispanic, and women. Though, I don’t think I’m the norm in that regard.

Harrison: It’s a cycle and there’s a lack of talent. There aren’t many hosts as it is, let alone minorities who are training and developing to become PD’s. If they’re not around the radio business to see how it runs and works then they can’t be given opportunities to manage.

Coleman: It goes back to comfort level and how much of a chance they have to succeed as well as the resources invested. I think it’s as if they’d rather interview, but not hire someone from a non-white background so they won’t get in trouble for being discriminatory.

What can sports radio do to become a more appealing career destination for people from non-white backgrounds?

Sedano: Invest in young talent and people of all backgrounds. There are a lot of good young talented people out there and they need to be given opportunities. Not all of them are conventional broadcasters. Look for the local blogger who covers your local sports landscape. See what they’re made of. Stuff like that takes effort. I think a lot of managers in radio are on cruise control and take the path of least resistance. 

Dukes: I think we need to get into schools especially middle-schools and high-schools. We need to create programs, especially for under privileged children, and kids of color. They need to see that this is something they can do. The business has changed so much thanks to technology. You don’t have to work at a radio station to start practicing but those things have to be shown to people. I don’t think we’re doing enough in this business to create those opportunities for people who are going to come after us.

carrington3Harrison: I don’t think it’s non appealing to non white backgrounds. I think it’s a matter of seeing more minorities hired. It’s discouraging to some to look at the media and not see many people like them in places of power. That shouldn’t be a deterrent. You have a dream, chase it, and put the work in.

Coleman: It IS an appealing destination. I get letters all the time from young black broadcasters who want to do what I’m blessed to do. I don’t think the format needs to do anything to attract more interest.

What advice do you want to pass along to aspiring broadcasters who aren’t white and are looking to receive consideration for a future opportunity?

Sedano: This will sound totally cliche, but there is a reason it becomes a cliche. Knock on every door and don’t be afraid of rejection. It’s going to happen. Get over it quickly and move on. Don’t let that stuff linger. It’s a useless exercise. Also, network your behind off, but be respectful of people’s time. No one likes anyone who is overbearing or worse… annoying. And, if you get in the business… Be nice to EVERYONE. You never know who your next boss will be. 

Dukes: Be yourself. You don’t have to change or do anything different than what you’re doing. I was told by my mentor “don’t do it for the money, if you’re good enough, the money will come”. He was right.

The other thing, if you aspire to be, you can achieve it. Just because there may be no one who looks like you doing it in your town, doesn’t mean you can’t be the first to do it. Be a pioneer, be a trendsetter, and make it happen. Don’t let anyone stop you. I’ve been told many times “you don’t sound like the radio station, I’m not sure this is going to work, we might have a spot for you in a lesser daypart”. Those things didn’t stop me, so don’t let anyone try to steal your dreams.

newy3Scruggs: Work hard and continue to pursue your dreams. The big thing is to build your contacts and be in touch with decision makers. Go to conventions and conferences and get in front of people. I landed three radio jobs by going to the people who did the hiring and said give me a look. I made it happen. Now, it is easier for me because I’m a local TV sportscaster but you have to be willing to go grind and hustle to find work.

Also, be willing to move and work in a smaller market to get daily reps to become a good host. Never allow anyone to say you are not prepared. Too many guys in this business do ZERO prep work. Do the darn work. Build your contacts. Show up to events and games.

Coleman: Never give up or give in. There will be a person that will be advanced enough in their thinking to give you an equal chance. Once you’re in there, to use the old black adage, “be twice as good and never be afraid to be yourself”. That’s what got you in the door in the first place.

Barrett Blogs

Colin Cowherd, Jim Rome, Joy Taylor, Don Martin, Sam Pines and Amanda Brown to Speak at the 2023 BSM Summit

“All six of these media professionals have enjoyed success throughout their careers and bring different perspectives, styles, and experiences to the room.”

Jason Barrett

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I announced last week that the 2023 BSM Summit will be returning to Los Angeles. We had a fantastic experience in LA in 2019, and I expect our next conference on March 21-22, 2023 to be even bigger and better. But to do that, we need the right people on stage, and I’m excited today to reveal the first six additions to the show.

The 2023 BSM Summit in Los Angeles is proud to welcome FOX Sports Radio and FOX Sports 1 host Colin Cowherd, FOX Sports 1 co-host of the new weekday program SPEAK, Joy Taylor, CBS Sports Radio and CBS Sports Network superstar Jim Rome, FOX Sports Radio and iHeart Sports SVP of Programming, Don Martin, and the brain trust of ESPN LA 710, Senior Vice President Sam Pines and program director Amanda Brown.

All six of these media professionals have enjoyed success throughout their careers. They bring different perspectives, styles, and experiences to the room, and I’m sure those in attendance at The Founders Club at the Galen Center at USC will enjoy and appreciate learning from them.

We will have more announcements in the future about additional speakers to the 2023 BSM Summit. A reminder that if you work in the media industry and would like to attend the conference, you can purchase tickets and secure your hotel room by visiting BSMSummit.com.

I’d also like to thank last year’s sponsors who have already confirmed participation in our 2023 event. The Summit isn’t possible without their support. For folks interested in sponsorship details for the conference, please email Stephanie at Sales@BarrettSportsMedia.com.

Now here’s some press information about each of our six participants.

Colin Cowherd: He is one of the most thought-provoking and successful sports talk show hosts in the country, and has been a key part of FOX Sports Radio and FOX Sports 1 since September 2015. He is also the founder of The Volume, a digital-first sports media brand which has created an immediate impact in podcasting and on YouTube.

Cowherd’s three-hour sports talk program, THE HERD WITH COLIN COWHERD, airs simultaneously on FS1 and the FOX Sports Radio Network weekdays from Noon to 3pm ET. It is also available on www.FOXSportsRadio.comwww.FOXSports.com and has a dedicated iHeartRadio station, available live and throughout the day. The Herd has been chosen by industry programmers and executives as the top national sports talk radio show an unprecedented six times in seven years as part of BSM’s annual Top 20 series.

Jim Rome: Jim Rome is heard nationwide hosting ‘The Jim Rome Show‘ weekdays from Noon to 3pm ET on CBS Sports Radio. The program can also be watched on the CBS Sports Network. The show delivers three hours of aggressive, informed sports opinions, rapid-fire dialogue, tons of sports smack, and is consistently supported by Rome’s legions of fans otherwise known as the clones.

Rome also delivers his unique take on the day’s sports headlines via the CBS Sports Minute, 60-second commentaries which can be heard hourly on CBS Sports Radio affiliate stations. He also hosts his own podcast, The Reinvention Project, contributes to CBS Sports television, and has previously been seen on ESPN, FOX Sports, and in numerous movies and TV shows.

Joy Taylor: Joy Taylor co-hosts FS1’s new weekday program SPEAK alongside Emmanuel Acho and former NFL running back LeSean McCoy. She has previously worked as a co-host on THE HERD, as the moderator of SKIP AND SHANNON: UNDISPUTED, and as the host of her own podcast, “Maybe I’m Crazy”. She has also hosted programs for FOX Sports Radio.

Prior to joining FOX Sports, Taylor spent five years in Miami radio, including a successful three-year stint at 790 AM The Ticket, where she was co-host for the station’s top-rated morning-drive program, “Zaslow and Joy Show,” after starting with the station as the show’s executive producer. Taylor also served as the host of “Thursday Night Live” and “Fantasy Football Today” on CBSSports.com. She is a Pittsburgh native and the younger sister of former Miami Dolphins star Jason Taylor.

Don Martin: A 27-year veteran of iHeartMedia, Don is currently the SVP of Programming for FOX Sports Radio, the EVP for iHeartMedia Sports, and the SVP of KLAC-AM 570 LA Sports. Additionally, he provides oversight of the iHeartPodcast Network, which includes more than 40 national and 100 local sports podcasts and exclusive podcast agreements with the NFL and NBA. Don has been a featured speaker at prior BSM Summit’s and was recently a guest on The Jason Barrett Podcast. To hear it, click here.

Sam Pines: A fixture with Good Karma Brands since 2000, Pines is now charged with leading ESPN LA 710 since GKB assumed control of local operations. Prior to taking over the Los Angeles sports brand, Pines served as the GM and Sales Manager of ESPN Cleveland from 2006-2022. He has written a sales and leadership series, “Time to Win”, which focuses on coaching relationship-based selling and marketing, and is also involved with numerous boards and nonprofits.

Amanda Brown: Amanda has spent her entire twenty year career in sports radio working for the worldwide leader in sports. Currently responsible for creating and implementing the programming strategy for ESPN LA 710, Amanda has enjoyed nearly twelve years with the LA based brand after spending nearly six years in Bristol, CT producing national shows for the ESPN Radio network. Her career started behind the scenes in Dallas, TX where she worked as a producer at ESPN 103.3.

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Barrett Blogs

7 Years of BSM and The Official Announcement For The 2023 BSM Summit

“Fast forward to now, and where this thing has advanced to is far beyond my expectations.”

Jason Barrett

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Apologies in advance if some of this column feels like I’m giving myself and our brand a pat on the back. I am. When this company launched, many assumed I was just writing a few articles and biding my time until another programming job popped up. I had a number of friends say ‘there’s no future in sports radio consulting‘ and after putting my programming career in the rear view mirror to go home to NY, I wasn’t sure what was in store for me.

What I did know is that my interest in doing the same thing that I just did for the past decade in three different cities was gone, but my interest in working with brands and individuals was still very much alive. I loved creating and programming 95.7 The Game but my choice to come home was driven by personal reasons, not professional. I wrote in great detail about it back in February 2015 so if you’re not aware of my story and want to know more, click the link.

Some of you do know these details already so I’m not going to repeat myself. I also don’t like talking on this website about personal issues because that’s not what brings us together each day. Media news, insight, and opinion does. But when this day rolls around each year, I hope you can understand why I take a moment to celebrate it. I moved home with no job, no plan, and no business but 7 years later, here we are are still ticking.

Launching this company has been the best professional decision I’ve ever made. Erika Nardini just had this conversation recently with Mark Cuban and he said taking a leap when you have nothing is the best time to do so. As crazy as that sounds, he couldn’t have been more right. That said, it’s pretty humbling going from successfully managing a top 4 market brand and earning six figures to being unemployed with no income and not being sure what you want to do. There were many days where I wondered ‘what was this all for?’. I hadn’t been without a job for a long time but I didn’t want to rush into something I wasn’t excited about especially since I knew I had to take care of my son and wanted to set a good example for him.

When I announced I was leaving San Francisco, I said I’d consider staying with the company if a position could be created that would allow me to work from NY and travel to help brands. Entercom back then wasn’t as big as Audacy is now, so that wasn’t an option. That led to small talk about consulting but quite frankly, I had no interest in doing that. I thought consulting was something folks did at the end of their careers or others used as a temporary excuse to explain what they were up to after leaving a job. I was 41 at the time and felt I had two decades left to give to the business, and if I was going to go down that road, I’d do it differently.

As I began to clear my head and think about what was next, I decided I was going to create the position that Entercom didn’t have available except rather than being exclusive to one group, I’d be accessible to all of them. I wanted to make a difference in multiple cities and expand my reach beyond radio. Now I work with brands involved in radio, TV, podcasting, social media, sales, sports betting, etc..

I’m also very entrepreneurial, so the idea of building a digital company that focused on covering the sports media business had great appeal to me. I built my radio career by doing everything early on and saw that as an advantage. Back in 2015, there were outlets covering the radio business, but none dedicated to sports radio. Even the newspapers that wrote about sports TV and other media issues, often examined them with folks who hadn’t been on the inside for quite some time. I had recent experiences programming brands in three different parts of the country, I learned how to build a website, I didn’t mind selling myself, and I wasn’t restricted from writing and sharing my honest and candid opinions. That helped me give BSM life and a voice. I also had one other advantage. I was talking weekly with industry people, going to different cities to work with multiple groups and seeing up close why certain things worked and others didn’t. That helped me tell better stories, build deeper relationships, and assist clients with greater knowledge.

Fast forward to now, and where this thing has advanced to is far beyond my expectations. I’ve been presented with opportunities to work with groups I never expected. I’ve had people reach out to present opportunities, including purchasing the company, that others would be shocked were considered (Btw I’m not looking to sell). Our brand now generates hundreds of thousands in traffic per month thanks to an exceptional team of 20 writers which produces 35-40 pieces of content per day on the sports and news media industry. In fact, August was our best month of traffic this year. We were up 30% year over year. We create 5 podcasts per week, distribute multiple newsletters, consult a strong amount of media brands, sell and work with advertising partners to help grow their businesses, deliver content through social media channels that are followed by thousands of people, and host an annual conference, which is well attended and supported by industry professionals and broadcast companies.

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Which brings me to the next part of this column – the 2023 BSM Summit.

After hosting our last two shows in New York City, I told all in attendance that our next event would return to the west coast. Finding the right city and venue takes time, and this one was tough because there were great options in Las Vegas and Los Angeles, but after reviewing the possibilities, I’m thrilled to share that the 2023 BSM Summit will take place in Los Angeles, California at The Founders Club at the Galen Center at the University of Southern California. The dates will be Tuesday March 21st and Wednesday March 22nd (we didn’t want to do dates that conflicted with the NCAA Tournament). Show time both days will once again be 9a-5p PT.

I couldn’t be happier with this location. The space we have to work with is fantastic, the people involved with USC have been great, and to bring a room full of sports media professionals to the USC campus will be awesome. We’ve also partnered with the USC Hotel which is within walking distance of our venue. Room rates and ticket prices for the Summit can now be found on BSMSummit.com.

I know everyone will start texting, emailing, calling, and DM’ing to ask about tickets, speakers, sponsorships, the after-party and awards show, etc.. I’ll have follow up announcements coming soon about the first few speakers we’ve lined up. Most people attended the 2022 show live, but some checked out the show virtually too. I’m not sure yet if we’re going to make this one available virtually. If we do, we’ll announce it on the site at a later time. Like anything, if enough people want it we’ll find a way to get it done. In the meantime, Stephanie Eads is setting up conversations with former and future conference partners so if you have a sponsorship question, hit her up by email at Sales@BarrettSportsMedia.com.

One thing I do want to ask of those who are planning to attend the Summit, email me to let me know what you’re interested in learning about at the show. We’ve been blessed to have some incredibly smart, successful people in the room, but as cool as that may be, I want to make sure folks return to their buildings afterwards with information to improve their operations. This only works if you take the knowledge and use it to help your brands and people. If anything in particular is of interest, please let me know by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.

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As I look ahead to year 8, I’m extremely bullish on continuing our momentum on the sports media side. We’ve just added Eddie Moran as a new features writer, and if it makes business sense to add more writers or create additional podcasts down the line, we’ll examine those opportunities as they arise. A few years ago it was just Demetri and I running the day to day business. Now we have Stephanie, Andy, Garrett Searight, Arky Shea, Alex Reynolds, and Eduardo Razo involved, and though having a larger staff doesn’t guarantee success, I like how we’re positioned. If anything, our focus now is on doing impactful work not busy work. As much as I’d love to keep everyone and never stop adding, running a business effectively requires regularly examining what is and isn’t working. Having people involved who are passionate and consistently reliable is vital. If they can’t be then it means the fit isn’t right.

Having said that, I believe we can always get better. As we move ahead, I’m counting on my team to find and create more original content, strengthen and increase relationships, gain a stronger grasp of SEO, and collectively, we’ll work on improving our digital marketing to promote our content and develop better affiliate partnerships. One way the industry can help us in return, let us know when you create something on-air that might fit the site. Most of what we gather comes from finding it ourselves yet content gets created daily on sports TV and radio. We’re not going to write stories about sports opinions but if it’s media-centric, a heads up helps. So too does sharing our content on social media.

Though BSM is an integral part of our company’s future growth, I am equally as bullish on building Barrett News Media. We started BNM on September 14, 2020 and our first year was slow. We needed to dip our toe in rather than dive in head first, but over the past 9 months we’ve increased our relationships and our readers are now starting to see what we’re capable of. We’ve assembled a strong cast of news writers, reporters, and columnists, and just added to our team last week with the addition of Joe Salzone. Adding writers and consulting clients remains an ongoing process, and make no mistake about this, I want to help news/talk stations just as I have helped sports brands. Maybe down the line we’ll add a few news media podcasts too, but we have other things to focus on first.

For starters, if you’ve read this website over the years then you’re likely familiar with the BSM Top 20. It’s a series we produce recognizing the best in the sports media industry. It’s voted on by a large number of sports radio programmers and executives, and for 6 years in a row it has been our website’s largest traffic driver. I thought previously about doing a series for the news media industry, but because we had less help, little time, and an unfamiliar brand, I held off.

But that’s about to change.

Later this year, we will introduce the very first BNM Top 20 of 2022. This will include voting participation from news media programmers and executives, with the goal being to showcase the best national radio shows and podcasts, and the top local stations, shows, and PD’s from both the major and mid markets.

It will be a giant undertaking but it’s long overdue for our brand. Though I’m sure the process will be exhausting, I’m looking forward to sharing the results and shining a brighter light on the news/talk media business. When I’m ready to announce the dates and schedule for the series, we’ll reveal it here on the site and across our BNM social media channels. Stay tuned.

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As I bring this column to an end, I’ll end by sharing a few things that have surprised me over the years. First, I’m seeing less interest the past 3 years from younger people becoming programmers than I did between 2015-2019. Is that because of the pandemic? The rise of sports gambling? A lack of confidence in the radio industry? As someone who’s helped 15-20 brands find and hire brand leaders, and talks to more people than most, that’s concerning.

I think sports radio also needs to do a better job of grooming people for these roles and showing them a path to long-term success. PD’s should be more actively championing their people for growth too than they do. If you value someone and want to see him or her reap the rewards for their hard work, you have to look beyond how it’ll affect your day to day duties. Focus on the big picture, not just what makes your life easier.

What should concern executives is the fact that in the past five years, sports radio has lost Armen Williams, Jeremiah Crowe, Joe Zarbano, Adam Delevitt, Tony DiGiacomo, Terry Foxx, Brad Willis, Chris Baker, Tom Parker, Jay Taylor, Kyle Engelhart, Hoss Neupert, and John Hanson. I’m sure I’m missing a few too. That’s a lot of programming experience out the door including some with decades left to give to the industry. Maybe some weren’t built for the job long-term or others were kicking down the door and ready to lead but in most businesses, if you saw that type of change in key management roles, you’d be questioning if it’s an industry you want to be a part of. If the veterans don’t stay or become too expensive, and the leaders of tomorrow aren’t sticking around, where does that leave us?

From the talent end, how are you helping yourself when there isn’t a job to chase? If the only time you contact a PD is to ask about a gig, don’t be surprised when your calls go straight to voicemail. Relationships are a two-way street. Build them when there’s nothing to be gained and you’ll be amazed at how it pays off later. By the way, that goes for me too. I get asked by a lot of people to find time when there’s trouble in paradise but when life is good, crickets. Those who keep in touch and support BSM/BNM whether that’s through a monthly membership or buying a Summit ticket have more success getting a hold of me. I’m not trying to be a hard ass but I’m not an agent, so building your career isn’t my priority. Taking care of my family and business partners is. However, I do help people and make time for many, but it’s got to work both ways. My members and clients know they can ask for something and receive an answer. Others I’ve built and maintained relationships with receive the same. But if you’re counting on me to help you find work and gossip about the business with you, I’m not your guy.

If there’s been a winner the past 7 years it’s been the growth of sports betting. As other categories have produced less, sports betting has emerged as an important growth driver for the sports format. And this has happened with most of the country not even legal yet. As more states give the green light to legalize sports gambling, revenues and content opportunities should follow. We will likely reach a point where consolidation comes into play and certain brands and companies overload their content in a way that makes them insufferable to listen to but for every few setbacks there are far greater reasons to be optimistic. In the past 7 years we’ve seen Amazon, Facebook, Apple, and YouTube become big players in sports television. Might FanDuel, DraftKings, BetRivers, Fanatics, Barstool and others do the same in the sports media space? That’s going to be an interesting follow for sure.

Knowing how everything can change in an instant, I take nothing for granted with BSM and BNM. This could all end tomorrow, and if it did, I’d look back on it as the best days of my professional life. I want to keep growing as a professional, while remaining an asset to my current partners, and finding ways to work with new brands and companies in both sports and news media. I’m also enjoying hosting a podcast again, and if you haven’t checked out The Jason Barrett Podcast, the latest episode with Colin Cowherd is a good one to start with.

The future for sports and news media may change but both will remain viable and important. I love that we’ve been able to be a small part of this business each day for the past 7 years, and I hope to make the next 7 years as fulfilling as the past 7. If I’m able to do that, it’ll mean the 20 years I spent in studios were needed to make a nationwide impact from a home office.

So on behalf of our entire team, past and present, thank you for reading the twenty thousand pieces of content we’ve produced since 2015. None of this is possible without an army of BSM/BNM supporters. I hope to see you in Los Angeles this March for the 2023 BSM Summit.

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The Podcast Movement Conference Made a Mistake Rejecting Ben Shapiro

“If this is a conference about podcasting, and you have someone in attendance who excels at it, has a massive following, and their company is supporting your event as a sponsor, why are you treating them like a disease?”

Jason Barrett

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I’ve had the pleasure of attending multiple Podcast Movement Conferences over the years. Those involved in putting the event together do a fantastic job creating an action packed agenda full of accomplished speakers, and the visual displays and access to different brands and industry professionals have always been nothing but positive. It’s why I was disappointed this year when my schedule didn’t allow for me to make the trip to Dallas.

So imagine my surprise late last week when I learned the conference took a stance against Westwood One radio host and co-founder of The Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro

Shapiro’s company was a sponsor of this year’s show, and according to reports, the well known podcaster and radio host wasn’t registered for the event. He made a brief appearance at his company’s booth, shaking hands and taking photos with fans who stopped by to say hi, and his mere presence at the show led to some protesting his involvement on social media.

After learning Shapiro had stopped by, the Podcast Movement Conference posted a series of tweets which said “Hi folks, we owe you an apology before sessions kick off for the day. Yesterday afternoon, Ben Shapiro briefly visited the PM22 expo area near The Daily Wire booth. Though he was not registered or expected, we take full responsibility for the harm done by his presence.”

The conference added, “Those of you who called this “unacceptable” are right. In 9 wonderful years growing and celebrating this medium, PM has made mistakes. The pain caused by this one will always stick with us. We promise that sponsors will be more carefully considered moving forward. No TDW representatives were scheduled to appear on panels, and Shapiro remained in the common space and did not have a badge. If you have questions, we’re here to talk. Thank you for reading, and we hope you’ll continue to join us from here on out.”

A quick search shows that Shapiro has one of the top performing podcasts on the charts. According to Westwood One, it is downloaded over fifteen million times per month. In addition, his radio program is carried on hundreds of radio stations, he has 13 million followers combined between Facebook and Twitter, and his company, The Daily Wire, adds another 5.5 million supporters to the mix. They also showed they were supportive of the conference by making a financial commitment to sponsor a booth.

Having explained all of that I was stunned that the Podcast Movement Conference took this position. Let me be clear, it was a mistake. Their stance has led to a flood of negative attention over the past 72 hours, and it all could’ve easily been avoided. Though their next event is still a year away, given how much attention this story has received, it could have a carry over effect on future sponsorships and attendance. Only time will tell.

As someone who runs an annual conference, albeit much smaller, I know how hard it is to put an event together. What the Podcast Movement organizers put together each year requires a herculean effort, which is why I’m baffled that they picked sides in this situation. The media industry is large and full of people, brands and companies with different views and approaches to business and everyday life. The second you start judging and making decisions based on personal beliefs and/or social media activity, you’re in trouble.

I’ve long maintained that if someone works in the sports media industry and wishes to learn and share information to help improve the business, they’re welcome at our BSM Summit. We make changes to our schedule each year based on what we feel is topical for the attendees but we don’t discriminate, support one brand over another or allow personal views to dictate if someone can or can’t be present.

Case in point, at our March conference, I had a few people privately upset that I asked Craig Carton to speak. Craig’s prior arrest and time served in jail is well documented. First, I have a ton of respect for what Craig has accomplished, and I believe in second chances, but personal views aside, he’s the afternoon host in the nation’s largest market working for WFAN, a top rated sports radio brand. History has shown that he’s damn good and successful, and more than qualified to speak on the subjects we cover at our event. When a few folks expressed their displeasure with my decision I told them ‘If you’re not a fan of Craig, don’t attend that session. If it bothers you beyond that, I understand if you can’t attend the show.’

Quieting the noise gets easier when you focus strictly on the business. Making everyone happy is impossible when you organize an event, but if you allow multiple viewpoints to be present in the room, you end up in a decent place more times than not.

You also have to remember that social media can make things appear worse than they are. Is the issue you’re dealing with being raised by conference partners and supporters who attend the event each year or from someone who’s not in the building and thrives on creating a social media firestorm for the causes they oppose and fight against?

Some may recall that I dealt with a few headaches in 2019 prior to our LA Summit after folks involved with groups that had no interest or desire to attend our show started trying to create a controversy out of nothing. Though it was frustrating playing defense on Christmas night when individuals from the New York Times, Deadspin and WNBA teams started poking holes in our conference’s flyer, I learned an important lesson. As long as you do the right thing and have the support and trust of your friends, family, attendees, and partners, who cares what others think or say who don’t know you and aren’t in the room for your event.

That’s what I don’t understand here. Is Shapiro not one of the most successful podcasters out there? Was his company not a paying partner of the event? If this is a conference about podcasting, and you have someone in attendance who excels at it, has a massive following, and their company is supporting your event as a sponsor, why are you treating them like a disease? Most would roll out a red carpet for someone with Shapiro’s track record of success not publicly condemn them for showing up and sponsoring the show. I know I would. I’d also do the same for someone who’s equally successful and views the world the exact opposite way.

I can’t help but wonder how folks at Westwood One feel about this incident. Don’t they promote and support this conference and include their people in the event? Think they might object to one of their top personalities being treated this way? Furthermore, how about the talk radio format? It’s no secret that most of the programming on news/talk radio stations leans right. A number of top performing podcasts follow a similar path. It’s safe to say that most in the format are going to support Shapiro, and I don’t think that helps the conference with attracting future business and participation.

To be clear, I don’t listen to Ben Shapiro’s podcast or radio show, and I don’t read The Daily Wire. I only point that out because I don’t want anyone to assume that I’m supporting him because of personal interests or a professional relationship. We’ve never spoke or crossed paths. My opinion is based solely on the facts surrounding this situation, nothing else.

That said, I understand Ben has shared opinions that some take offense to and I don’t blame those folks for not wanting to be around him. But there’s a simple solution, don’t go near him or his booth. It’s the same thing I tell people who don’t like a particular radio station’s hosts or a piece of content on our website; if you don’t like it, don’t read or listen to it. The Podcast Movement Conference takes place in a large convention center. There’s more than enough room to keep everyone separated and happy. Last time I checked, there were attendees in the room who stopped by to meet Ben at his booth. Do they not count?

Look, you don’t have to agree with Shapiro, but this is a podcasting business conference, and it’s something he’s done at a higher level than most. That qualifies him to be there. You can’t get in the middle and start determining who is and isn’t allowed in based on personal beliefs or trying to please agenda driven people on social media. Would Podcast Movement tell Joe Rogan, one of the most successful podcasters out there, that he couldn’t attend if people who didn’t like his views on Covid-19 protested? What’s next, not giving out industry awards to stations and individuals who we don’t like or agree with? When does the insanity end?

Here’s the reality, there are likely other sponsors and attendees in the room who have views that some may consider offensive. Our content and advertisers aren’t just supported by good, honest people. There are thousands, if not millions, who listen and support us who are shady, sick, and morally bankrupt. That’s beyond our control. Our job is to inform and entertain, and make people care enough to come back regularly. If we do that well, sponsors will follow. Keep those things happening, and everyone remains satisfied.

Moving forward, the Podcast Movement Conference has to decide if it wants to be open to all or only to some. I root for the conference to do well. I’ve enjoyed attending previous shows and hope to attend future ones. But if they expect to maintain support and enjoy future growth, learning from this situation is important. There’s much more money in staying neutral than alienating one side of the room.

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