Barrett Blogs
Mike Francesa Reflects on Thirty Years in Sports Radio

Published
5 years agoon

Thirty years in any business is a long time. In radio, it’s an eternity. For Mike Francesa, it’s never been about surviving corporate changes, the loss of a radio partner, increased competition or the rise of technology. It’s been about competing and being the very best. Anything less than “numbah 1” wasn’t good enough.
But despite three decades of ratings and revenue success, Mike will find himself in unfamiliar territory on December 16, 2017. That Saturday morning, the king of New York sports talk will wake up for the first time since 1987 as a man without a microphone and radio station.
It’s no secret that Francesa and WFAN are going in separate directions. Chris Carlin, Bart Scott and Maggie Gray have been tabbed by program director Mark Chernoff to lead the station forward in PM drive, a move which is under heavy scrutiny. Fans were hopeful after Craig Carton’s exit in September that WFAN executives and their longtime franchise player would find a way to extend their relationship but unfortunately nothing changed.
Whether you’ve been a Francesa fan or critic, his success and impact on the radio industry can’t be denied. His rise with Chris “Mad Dog” Russo to the top of the ratings in New York breathed life into the sports radio business during a very important time in the format’s infancy. Had Mike and the Mad Dog not produced results, who knows where the format would be today.
But it didn’t stop there. Russo left the show in August 2008, and rather than adding a partner, Francesa began performing as a solo act, delivering the same type of impact that he had for the prior 19 years. That success added to his legacy, and cemented his position on the Mount Rushmore of sports radio talk show hosts.
For most personalities, that would be enough, but Mike hasn’t reached the end of his broadcasting journey. In fact, he remains interested in continuing to work. Fans will have to live without hearing him during the upcoming winter months but come April, Francesa says he plans to sink his teeth into something new. What that will be and how often he’ll do it remains to be seen, but whatever he chooses, it’ll be on a different outlet than the one New York sports radio listeners have been accustomed to finding him on for the past three decades.
I had the pleasure of spending time with Mike in his office last week to reflect on his run with WFAN and examine a number of different areas of the radio business. As usual, he was candid and provided plenty to think about, two of the biggest reasons why he’s been one of the most successful sports radio personalities in our format’s history.
JB: How much have you allowed yourself to reflect and appreciate the process leading up to your final show?
MF: I’ve absolutely thought a lot about the show and the different moments that have happened throughout the years. Everywhere we’ve gone this year the crowd’s have been overwhelming. I thank the fans enormously. We’ve had the most loyal and consistent fans the past thirty years that you could ever even hope for and I’m very appreciative of that.
Leading up to the final show, in our business you spend a lot of time planning ahead. Right now I’d normally be looking to the Super Bowl, Spring Training and even April. You’re always trying to work 4-6 in advance but I haven’t done any of that so that’s very different from the normal course of business. There’s a finality to every part of it. As I’ve gone past each month, you check them off and realize there’s never going to be another September or October doing shows so from that standpoint I’ve tried to appreciate it and be a little more reflective.
JB: What are you going to miss most and least about the job?
MF: The least part of the job that I’ll miss is the traffic. It’s impossible getting around the city and it wears you down. It’s a couple of hours a day. Just brutal.
What I’ll miss most is the idea that there’s a big happening and I know the city is waiting for me at one o’clock. That’s been my life for thirty years. To know the city isn’t waiting for me anymore will be a big adjustment.
JB: Who would you put at the top of the list among your favorite guests from over the years?
MF: There were some guests who performed above the call of duty on the show. George Young was one. David Stern was another. They not only brought a great performance level but they brought this curmudgeonly playful attitude that made them great guests.
The one that got away was Joe DiMaggio. Dog and I tried very hard to get him on the show. We even got Ted Williams to ask for us. We just couldn’t get him.
JB: Which memorable moments from the show stand out the most?
MF: The day Dog left was an emotional one. Cherny fought me the whole day. I said I’m putting him on. He said no you’re not. I said he has a right to say goodbye. Mark said no he doesn’t. He’s out.
Back then they used to just take you off the air. They’ve learned their lesson and changed that stance thankfully. Look at me, right now I couldn’t be more of a lame duck. There’s a new company I’m not part of. There’s a new show already named. I feel like the President after election day. You have people just waiting to push you out of the office.
JB: When did you know the show was a success and had influence?
MF: I knew the show was a success when we got the first book. We were third after they had been eleventh. The second book we were first and life changed. They ripped up our contracts, we were the toast of the town, there were headline stories, and we were big stars.
The first time though that I knew it had impact was when the Giants called and asked me to MC a dinner they were doing. That was about six months into the show. I was like “Whoa, the Giants are calling me?”
JB: So with all of these great moments and tremendous success, why leave?
MF: They made me a bunch of offers and asked what it would take for me to stay for a year, but we never really even seriously negotiated. I told them I really wasn’t into it. I didn’t want to stay just for money. I always felt you don’t stay in things just for money.
It was very important to me to leave on top. I didn’t want to be one of these guys who used to be number 1 and now you’re number 28. I couldn’t live that way. I wouldn’t be comfortable with that.
I’ve driven these guys exceedingly hard to finish 1st in the final book. With a few weeks to go we’re first but it looks like it’s going to be a dogfight with one of the music stations. That’s what’s important to me and that’s what we’ve been striving for. I wanted to go out the same way that I came in, on top.
JB: How much of this has to do with Entercom taking over and working for a new company and possibly facing different economic realities?
MF: Some of the reports that have been out there have been so wrong. I had dinner with David Field. He wasn’t able to talk about certain things because the merger was pending but this notion that the company was trying to cut my salary is not true. They offered me the same amount that I’m making right now.
This wasn’t about money. I just thought a few years ago that it was the right time and nothing made me think it wasn’t the right time to go. I still believe it’s the right time to move on.
It had nothing to do with Entercom. Whether I agree with what they’re going to do going forward or not doesn’t matter. I’m not even going to know what they’re like for six months. They were not an issue at all.
JB: How close did you come to reversing your stance following Craig’s exit?
MF: After the Carton thing happened I said “if you really need me to stay then we’ll discuss it.” We had one meeting about it and they said they did not think it was a big deal and didn’t think it would change things at all. I said OK and that was it.
JB: So if that is indeed the case and this is it for you with WFAN, what is next?
MF: I want to produce content and do some new things. I don’t want to not work at all. I will not do Monday thru Friday. I’ve been offered book deals and rejected them because I don’t think I’m an author. I still have a lot to say and there are many ways to do that and I’m looking at some of them.
The way it’s set up I can’t do local radio, network radio, satellite radio or podcasts until April 1st. TV’s not in there but I’m not sure how much of that I want to do, especially the conventional way. I’m much more into digital and the new wave of TV, the Amazon way, the Netflix way and the different ways they distribute video content.
JB: This radio station has endured losing high profile stars like Russo, Imus, Carton, Sid, etc. Your departure will soon be another major test for them. How has WFAN been able to continue thriving after losing such key people?
MF: We built something strong that had legs. It will endure past me. The Fan has been built on a strong enough foundation that it will be here fifty to a hundred years from now. It’s become part of this town and culture. It’s an iconic brand.
They still have to make the right decisions. If they don’t, it can lose its way. We’ve seen that happen in other cities. It’s not The Fan’s birthright to be on top and it is tough to replace a very successful show but it does happen. Imus got replaced.
Mark always has an idea of what he wants to do. This was not done without any thought process. How it’s going to do? We’ll see.
JB: The news of the new afternoon show hasn’t been well received so far, although they haven’t even done a show yet. Your former partner in particular was pretty upset. What’s your reaction to the station going in this direction?
MF: First, Dog can talk about the individuals all he wants. He’s earned that right. But from my position, the less said the better. I don’t have much to go on. None of these people have ever had any real radio presence on this station. I’ve never heard Maggie or Scott do a show and I haven’t even really heard Continent do a show so what they’ll be as a trio, nobody has any idea, and as individual performers, I don’t really know.
JB: Let’s be fair too, whoever goes in after you, is going to be under intense scrutiny the second they step into the studio. How long of a leash do you think a new show deserves?
MF: You have to give the new show at least six months. The first book will not be a great indicator of anything. Plus it’s a Winter ratings book. Take a look at the end of the Spring book and see where you are. That’d be a fair indicator.
JB: I recognize you’re not in the advice business, but having done this successfully for as long as you have, what advice can you pass along to the new show?
MF: They need to be themselves. You can’t manufacture something that’s not there. Chemistry is something they have to develop. They have to figure out their roles and ones that each of them are comfortable with and then play to their individual strengths. That’s their mission. What they have to realize is that it’s never going to be a case where each is responsible for a third of the show. That’s silly. It just has to have a feel.
JB: The competition in afternoons has been stronger too. How do you think that affects the patience with the new program?
MF: For the longest time, we were the only show the other station went head to head with locally. That was done by design because they knew they’d get destroyed if they put in a national show against me. Network shows only have a certain level they can reach.
There’s going to be some back and forth. The other station feels they’re in a different position now. They’ve never won. They’ve always lost. They’ve been beaten up for so many years that they think this is an opening but they felt the same way when Dog left and that door didn’t open for them. We’ll see this time if they are more vulnerable.
JB: Mark Chernoff is responsible for making the move. The two of you guys have had a lengthy working relationship. How would you describe it?
MF: We’ve had the typical talent to program director relationship. There are days he will try to push me to things I don’t want to do. He might be right or wrong. We’ve had our fights and arguments but we’ve also gotten along really well.
Mark’s greatest strength for me is that he’s a genius on understanding the ratings and how they work. There are certain things you can do and I’m sure he’ll teach the new show and they really need to listen and understand.
A lot of talent won’t take the time to learn this part of it. Some pay no attention to ratings. You can like it or not but if you don’t understand it you’re out of your mind and short selling yourself. That’s how you’re going to be paid.
JB: How surprised are you by the lack of interest from some personalities towards learning and understanding the ratings game to help their longevity and earning power?
MF: Our business is subjective. You’re not going to please everybody all the time. Your job though is to produce ratings and revenue. It’s the only thing that will sell the day. To not understand how they work and what tricks you can do in your show to have success is very important. There are some things that you don’t want to do in a half hour that’ll cost you. When you want to break and stuff like that. Some people think “all I have to do is promote ahead and I’m fine.” No No No. There’s a lot more to it than that.
I remember Mel Karmazin had this meeting years ago and turned to one guy and asked “what’s your job.” This executive went into this long ten minute answer full of a bunch of baloney and Mel turned to him and said “let me put it simple – you’re job is ratings and revenue – and don’t forget it on your next job.” He fired him.
JB: Sticking with the subject of ratings, you’ve said before that you feel the sports radio industry is going after the wrong demographic. You believe Men 35-64, not Men 25-54, should be the target. How come?
MF: Trying to get this business to change something, forget it. They are so slow it’s glacier speed. This is such a no-brainer. We are so much healthier and living longer. Our life expectancy is now into the mid 80’s. The people 55 to 70 have incredible earning power and more money than anybody in this country. They have the life to spend it and the time to spend it.
The way the world works with student debt and the economy, kids aren’t even leaving home until they’re 30 years old. They can’t afford anything at 25 years old. If they’re buying their first home it’s usually on a shoestring budget and they’re getting help from their parents. You think that’s your market? They’re not your market. Your market is the baby boomer and people 40-65 who have all the earning and spending power in this country. To turn away a good part of that audience is insane.
JB: How do we fix that?
MF: The entire ad buying community has to grow. Using GQ as an example, I read them and look at their ads for clothes and they’re all geared towards the twenty year old’s. I buy more clothes than they do. They don’t target guys like me and they’re out of their minds. We’re the ones who go out to fancy dinners, buy expensive suits and jewelry and drive a mercedes. The guy 20 or 30 isn’t doing that. He’s two hundred thousand dollars in debt and lucky if he even has a car.
If I was in the advertising business I’d be saying “gear everything towards the guys 40-65 or 70, they have all the money and time.”
JB: One of the biggest challenges for radio has been the emergence of digital. How do you think that’s impacted the industry?
MF: The radio business has got to find itself and decide what it wants to be. The audience has not gone anywhere. What our industry has done, is they think it’s gone somewhere because they’ve been scared off by technology and they’ve chased digital to the detriment of their regular radio audience.
I’ve fought everybody in the business over this. Radio is live and local and the business is still there. The digital money has never been there. No one knows how to monetize it and it’s so new that you’re not even sure what you’re selling as the business changes from Facebook to Twitter to Instagram to Snapchat.
What radio does know how to do, this commercial sells that car. This commercial sells that restaurant or store. That has never changed but they’ve gotten away from it and radio has to get back to its roots or they’re going to wish they did.
JB: But social media has become an important way for people to engage, find content and connect to brands. Podcasts are another platform gaining in popularity. Don’t those matter?
MF: I understand the draw of social media. The chasing of content is good. But the radio companies, and to a lesser extent, the television companies, still don’t have a handle on it.
I’ve railed against podcasts because nobody makes any money on them. When did we decide everybody gets a radio show? We didn’t. But everybody now has a podcast.
Radio has chased empty dollars. There’s nobody at the door saying you can’t enter. So everybody enters. Unless you go into a podcast with a radio brand and audience, you’re not going to make money or create a big enough audience to support what you’re doing.
JB: When you look at where the industry is today compared to where it was before, do you think it’s still an attractive profession?
MF: The job of talk show host has become a great job. When I started the talk show host was not a big deal. The columnist was the big guy and he looked down at the radio host. We turned it into a profession. Kids are now going to school to pursue becoming a talk show host. In most cities in this country, the talk show host is now the number one difference maker or tastemaker in that town. To me, that transition is one I’m most proud of. Mike and the Mad Dog gave the job enormous credibility and attention.
JB: You mentioned Mike and the Mad Dog, knowing that this was going to be the final run for you with WFAN, was that why you gave the green light on doing the 30 for 30 episode?
MF: The Mike and the Mad Dog 30 for 30 I did for two reasons. The first was my kids asked me, and the second was because Dog asked me. My first inclination was not to do it because I’ve had a bad relationship with ESPN.
When they did the twenty fifth anniversary piece, I was the only one who wouldn’t do it. Even Imus did it. Bill Simmons said “I can’t do this unless you do it” and I said “I’m not doing it for ESPN.” He still keeps busting my chops about it because I did the 30 for 30 but didn’t do his thing.
Plus the guys who did it I broke into the business with. Danny Forer and I worked together in 1983, and Ted Shaker was one of my first bosses at CBS. He ran the NFL Today. I’ve known those guys for thirty years so that also made it a lot easier.
JB: Watching that film reminded me of how important it is to create something unique. Now, the world is cluttered with content choices and cutting thru is harder than ever. What do you tell a young person who’s starting out today and contemplating a path as a talk show host?
MF: It’s easier to get on the air now than it ever was but it’s also harder to break thru because there’s so much noise and clutter. You have to have an opinion and a presence that cuts thru. It has to be real and yours. That’s the key to success.
JB: In following your career, maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall you ever being suspended for something you’ve said on the air. Some personalities today feel they’ve got to deliver opinions that generate headlines and rattle a few cages to stand out. By doing so though they can risk losing their job. What are your thoughts on the need to push the envelope to cut thru the noise?
MF: I’ve never been suspended or reprimanded and I’ve never had to apologize. I attack people from a sports standpoint. I don’t attack people personally. I never bring their families, girlfriends or wives into it. I don’t do T & A or guy talk. I don’t believe in that.
I’ve always looked at my show as being a sports argument. It can be fierce and take the paint off the walls, but it’s going to be based on something that happened on the field or something that has an impact on the team.
The guys who want to push it and get involved, stay out of a tragedy. A perfect example was the Roy Halladay situation and how it was discussed by the guys in Boston. That’s not your business. You weren’t there. You don’t know anything about it. He has a wife and kids and cities that love him. Maybe he was reckless with his plane, but where do you get off thinking that’s your business? That’s a winless situation. There are times you have to stay out of stuff. You don’t belong in other people’s pain.
JB: Another area of the business which has changed has been the increase of political commentary in sports radio programming. Do you believe we’re going to see more of this going forward?
MF: I think the political explosion in sports talk has more to do with this President. He’s so polarizing because he touches so many parts of culture. He’s a TV star first. Without his show he never becomes President. We knew him in New York but they got to know him in living rooms across the country because of The Apprentice.
People who voted for Trump saw him as success. He brands himself that way. He breaks across certain barriers because some people see him as having the life they wish they had. He has the pretty girl, the jet, the money, the fame.
We are so polarized now that everybody sticks to their own opinion and nobody wants to have a political conversation. That’s made things much more agitated and tougher to get any consensus. There’s no middle anymore. What we’ve seen leak into all of these shows is really the Trump factor more than a political factor.
JB: Let’s talk about your own methods to hosting a successful program. How do you know when you’ve had a good or bad show?
MF: Any good show is fast moving. Anything that drags is bad. There’s a big difference between the two. Show’s can change on a dime. You have to realize ahead of time and during the show when it’s time to reverse the topic. You have to have an instinctive feel for what is and isn’t working as a performer. If that is not inside you, you’re going to have a hard time being special at this.
You know when you’re giving your audience a reason to stray. You won’t hear my show go into seven topics in seven minutes. I focus my shows because I don’t think you can move your audience all over the place.
It’s even more of a challenge when I’m doing a live show. I don’t ever give the audience a chance to chat among themselves. You never want to give the audience dead time during a live performance. That’s deadly. They’ll start talking to each other and then you’ll never get them back. If you put an intermission in there, you’re out of your mind. The show should never stop moving.
JB: I’ve noticed over the years that you haven’t placed a strong emphasis on using production, sound or teasing. How come?
MF: The show is me. Some people need a lot of sound and bells and whistles. I don’t use any of it. I don’t even use music. You have to understand though what you have to do. That means handling all the transitions and segues. It’s harder to do a show this way because it’s a lot more work but it’s something I believe in.
JB: As we look to the future, what would an induction into the radio hall of fame mean to you?
MF: The radio hall of fame would mean a lot. They put us in a voting category and we thought we had a chance but we finished second to Michael Savage. Credit to him. He earned it fair and square. I think Mike and the Mad Dog deserve to be in there and if we go in together that would be just fine with me.
JB: Along those lines, 10-15 years from now when people look back on your run at WFAN, what do you want them to remember?
MF: I hope that they remember that during the time I was here I dominated. That’s what I set out to do and I did that.
JB: What do you have planned for the final show?
MF: The day before the final show I’ll be broadcasting live from the Museum of Broadcasting with a number of guests, family, WFAN people, a small audience of about 200 people. We’re not selling tickets to that. We’ll just be giving some away.
The final show will just be me. I’m not letting anybody in the studio. I’m not doing any media that day. I even told my family to stay home and listen to it. I’m coming in, doing a show, talking to the audience, no guests, and then I’m getting up at 6:30 and leaving.
The last 10-15 minutes will probably just be me. I’m not going to script it. I’ll have thought about it obviously but I’m just going to let it go and then that’ll be it.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.

Barrett Blogs
ESPN Has Made It Clear, Radio Is Not a Priority
“What’s unfolding now at the worldwide leader is disheartening because it could have been avoided.”

Published
4 weeks agoon
April 26, 2023
This is not a column I wanted to write. For years, I’ve expressed how much better the industry is when ESPN Radio is healthy. I’ve maintained friendships at the network, the company has supported our BSM Summit, and I reflect fondly on the few years I spent working there earlier in my career. It was a special place to work and I learned a lot about becoming a pro in Bristol.
But this ESPN Radio is not the one that I and many others were fortunate to be a part of under Bruce Gilbert. It is not the one that Traug Keller, Scott Masteller, and other radio-first believers oversaw. This current version lacks radio instincts, focus, passion, and care. That may be an opinion that folks in Bristol, New York, and Los Angeles offices don’t want to hear but the decisions made in recent years make it difficult to see it any other way.
ESPN Radio used to obsess over serving the sports fan, its radio affiliates, and network advertising partners. But serving the company’s television and digital interests is what matters most now. Relationships with radio operators have changed, interest in operating local markets has decreased, and though I’m sure some will defend the network’s interest in satisfying advertising partners, it’s hard to do that a day after the entire national audio sales team was gutted. Thankfully Good Karma Brands is passionate about the audio business and helping their sales efforts. If they weren’t involved, who would be leading the charge in Bristol?
I didn’t start this week planning to drop a truth bomb but as I sat here on Tuesday and fielded text after text and call after call, I couldn’t help but be disappointed and upset. This network has been a staple of the industry for over thirty years. Yet in less than ten it feels they’re closer to turning off the lights than celebrating success. That should not happen when you have the partnerships, history, and talent that ESPN has.
What saddens me is that it didn’t have to reach this point. ESPN Radio had chances to sell in the past to outside parties. They declined. Folks inside of Disney felt the network was worth more. Well, how’s that looking now? If the company wasn’t going to commit to doing it the right way, and was just going to cut its way to the bottom, why stand in the way of others who’d pay to save it? It’s eerily similar to what just happened with Buzzfeed News. The company thought it was better than it was, and within a few years, the whole thing crumbled.
If this were the first time the network looked bad, I’d go easier on them. I understand the business, and sometimes brands or companies make mistakes or have to make difficult choices. It’s why I didn’t bury the network when Mike and Mike ended. Though I knew replacing their stability in mornings would be tough, I felt the network had earned enough clout over the prior years to be given the benefit of the doubt with a new show/lineup. I also applauded the company for replacing Zubin with Max, defended paying Stephen A. Smith top dollar, and supported GetUp! when it was popular to predict the show’s funeral.
But how can leadership in Bristol expect radio operators to trust their decision making at this point? I’ve talked to network executives privately and publicly about these issues for years, and have been told repeatedly that the radio business matters to them and becoming more consistent was a priority. At some point though the actions need to match the words. Unfortunately the only consistency taking place is change, and it often isn’t for the better.
I’ve lost count of the phone calls, texts, emails and direct messages I’ve fielded from PDs, executives, market managers, and ad agency professionals who’ve asked ‘should I be doing business with this network? Can you help me rebrand and redesign my radio station without ESPN Radio?‘ Yesterday alone I took five calls including from two who have expiring deals coming up. Think they’re in a rush to extend a partnership given what’s going on?
If you turn back the clock, some will say that things began to go in the wrong direction when Bruce Gilbert and Dan Patrick left. Though those were big losses, there was still a lot of confidence across the industry in ESPN Radio after they left. The early signs of issues at the network really started in 2014. That’s when Scott Masteller and Scott Shapiro departed. Masteller went on to program WBAL in Baltimore, and Shapiro teamed up with Don Martin to strengthen FOX Sports Radio.
Fast forward to 2020, and the heart and soul of the network, Traug Keller retired. Traug had more in the tank when he signed off, and when I talked to him prior to his exit, he denied being forced out or having concerns about the future direction of the network. Those who know Traug, know that’s he’s a class act and not one to air dirty laundry. But I also know he’s smart. As I look back now, I can’t help but wonder if he knew the ship was headed for an iceberg. I have no doubt that the network would be in better shape today if he were still there.
After Traug’s exit, a year later, Tim McCarthy was let go in New York. The network even cut ties with longtime voice talents Jim and Dawn Cutler, though they stayed on the company’s top stations in NY and LA.
Though I hated to see all of them go because they were good at their jobs and valuable to the network, the one that made a little more sense was Tim’s exit because that had more to do with Good Karma taking over in New York. Tim has since landed with the Broadcasters Foundation of America, and Vinny DiMarco is now leading 98.7 ESPN NY, and I’m a fan of both men.
But now here we are in 2023, and once again, the folks being shown the door are the people who dedicated their lives to radio. Among the casualties, Scott McCarthy, the network’s SVP of Audio, Pete Gianesini, Senior Director of Digital Audio, Louise Cornetta, Digital Audio Program Director, and two good local sports radio programmers, Ryan Hurley at 98.7 ESPN NY, and Amanda Brown at ESPN LA 710. All of them good, talented people with track records of success in the format. I struggle to explain how ESPN Radio is better today without them.
By the way, I haven’t even touched the talent department yet. But let’s go there next.
In less than eight years, ESPN Radio’s morning show has featured Mike & Mike, Golic & Wingo (Mike Golic Jr. and Jason Fitz were added as contributing voices), Keyshawn, JWill & Zubin, and Keyshawn, JWill and Max. Middays have included Colin Cowherd, Dan Le Batard and Stugotz, Scott Van Pelt, Ryen Russillo, Danny Kanell, Will Cain, Mike Greenberg, Jason Fitz, Stephen A. Smith, Bart & Hahn, and Fitz and Harry Douglas. Afternoons have been a combination of Le Batard and Stugotz, Bomani Jones, Jalen & Jacoby, Golic Jr. & Chiney, Canty & Golic Jr. & Canty and Carlin. I could run down the changes at night too, but you get the picture.
As a former programmer and current consultant, I know that radio is a relationship listen and investment. You can’t build an audience and attract sponsor support for talent and shows if the product constantly changes. Most PDs or executives who make this many changes during a short period of time, usually aren’t around very long. Yet ESPN has allowed this to continue, which leaves me to question how much they value their radio network.
Look, I’m sure this is a tough week for those in management at ESPN. Having to tell folks they’re not being retained and watch friends say goodbye is a crummy part of the job. I’m sure some have even fought to try and avoid this bloodbath. But when the news comes down from up above that 7,000 jobs are being eliminated, it’s not a question of whether or not people are talented and valuable, it’s simply about the bottom line. I feel for the folks at ESPN who have to deliver the bad news this week but also for those who are staying and now have limited support around them to make a difference.
By decimating the radio department there are now bigger questions to be answered by Jimmy, Burke, Dave, Norby and the rest of the management team. How much does ESPN value the radio business and the stations they’re in business with? If most of the people who’ve built relationships with local stations are gone, talented programmers are being ousted, talent changes happen far too frequently, and the company becomes less involved in local markets, why is anyone to believe this space matters to ESPN? What exactly are stations gaining from partnerships besides the use of four letters and the opportunity to air play by play events?
The network expects these stations to provide them with inventory, rights fees, branding, promotion, and clearance of certain programs so isn’t it fair of stations to have expectations of the network too? Don’t radio network partners deserve consistent quality programming, relationships with managers who prioritize audio, and less negative PR?
Most who I talk to about this situation believe the network’s glory days are gone. That’s fine. Just because this isn’t the ESPN Radio of 2005 doesn’t mean it can’t be great. The product exists now to primarily serve mid to small market operators who can’t afford local content, major market stations who don’t want to spend on evening and overnight shows, and company owned stations that can be utilized to promote the company’s digital and television content. ESPN does gain value for their radio shows on TV and podcast platforms, but those benefit the company much more than their radio partners.
The general feeling in industry circles is that FOX Sports Radio now delivers the best national radio product, CBS Sports Radio has better consistency but similar east coast content issues, and others don’t have strong enough brand recognition or content to justify a change. If sports betting continues to gain mainstream acceptance and bring cash into the marketplace, that could help outlets like VSiN, BetQL, and SportsGrid gain greater traction. If Outkick gets more aggressive with offering content to local markets, especially in the south and Midwest, that could be another interesting option.
The bigger question is whether there’s enough audience, revenue, and excitement for national content in today’s sports radio space. If most major markets are focused on local, is there enough out there in rural America to keep networks excited?
I do know that just ten years ago CBS Radio entered the space because they saw value in it. NBC Sports Radio leaped in too. FOX Sports Radio went all-in for Colin Cowherd, and ESPN Radio was healthy. Even SiriusXM continues to expand its national offerings, and three sports betting networks saw value in pursuing national distribution. It’s hard to convince me that there isn’t financial upside for national sports radio brands in today’s media environment. It may not be a big ratings play but from a business standpoint there is value.
What’s unfolding now at the worldwide leader is disheartening because it could have been avoided. Instead, brands have been damaged, relationships changed, jobs lost, and questions raised about future viability.
If the world’s leading sports operator values radio, they’ll prioritize restoring confidence across the industry. A good start would be putting people in place who champion radio’s future, and make decisions that best serve the radio brands carrying their product. If they can’t do that, then maybe it’s time to step aside, and let someone else try. I know a few groups who’d be happy to take a shot at restoring the network’s pride.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Barrett Blogs
Radio Must Bring Back The Fun
“The promotions you’re creating are not producing massive recall across the format, national media attention or revenues that change the fate of your next quarter.”

Published
1 month agoon
April 20, 2023
Five and a half days in Las Vegas can feel like an eternity. Especially when you’re in town for business not pleasure. But though I’d rather sleep in my own bed, eat at home, and avoid walking from convention hall to convention hall, I’m glad I made the trip because the NAB Show delivered.
Many media members have attended this event over the years, and it’s easy to come up with reasons not to attend. Budgets are tight, you can’t afford to be out of the office, or you think it isn’t beneficial. That’s where I’ll take exception. If you can’t find something of value at a five-day event that exists to serve broadcasters and brands, that’s on you, not the conference.
Over the past few days, I did what many do and took necessary business meetings at Encore, but I also listened to speakers offer valuable insights on artificial intelligence, marketing, programming, technology, dashboard connectivity, the future of AM radio, and more. All of these are subjects that should matter to media professionals. Having Brett Goldstein (Ted Lasso star Roy Kent) on hand to talk about content creation was an added bonus.
As I spent my final hour inside the North Hall on Wednesday, I couldn’t help but think about how large this event is, what goes into creating it, and how many different industries and brands are represented at it. What the NAB does to make this event possible for sixty-five thousand plus is amazing, and I commend all involved because it truly is informative, and it helps bring together business leaders and brands to help move our industry forward.
There were many takeaways from the conference sessions, but one in particular stood out. I thought Mike McVay’s session with J.D. Crowley and Paul Suchman of Audacy was excellent. Crowley’s insights on listener choice, distribution, and personalization were spot on, and I was very impressed with Suchman’s feedback on some of the behavior testing Audacy has done to learn how consumers respond to different types of content and messaging.
Crowley’s final message about people in the audio industry needing to be proud of the business they’re in was easy for me to relate to because I feel similarly. This is a great business to be in. I get tired of hearing folks in and out of the industry tear it down. So much attention gets placed on who exceeded revenue goals, what a brand’s ratings were, and what a company’s stock price is, losing sight of the more important part, our brands, personalities, and content, and the way they’re received by those who consume it.
Additionally, I was honored to speak about the growth of BSM and BNM. Joe D’Angelo of Xperi and Pierre Bouvard of Cumulus Media treated folks to information on advertising and in-car data, and Erica Farber, Tim Bronsil, and Mary DelGrande did a nice job guiding multiple business conversations. I also enjoyed stopping by the Veritone booth and learning about their products and staff. My only regret, I missed Buzz Knight’s session with Nielsen’s new audio team due to a business meeting running long. Thankfully Inside Radio put together a detailed recap of what was discussed.
But what I want to draw attention to most is something Dan Mason said on stage during his acceptance speech when receiving the Lowry Mays Award at the Broadcasters Foundation of America breakfast. It’s something I raised at last month’s BSM Summit.
After sharing how local is a key differentiator in helping radio stand apart from other forms of media, and reminding everyone about the importance of longevity, Mason said that radio has to get back to having fun. He shared a story of a promotion he was part of in the 1970’s that wouldn’t fly today. It was a short people’s convention that included six-ounce drinks, pigs in a blanket, and strawberry shortcake. The event put his radio station on NBC Nightly News, and created a ton of buzz.
Just because that type of event wouldn’t work in 2023, doesn’t mean others can’t. We have got to create special events that produce national attention, local market interest, and fear of missing out spending. This is what radio is supposed to be exceptional at yet it doesn’t happen enough.
At our Summit in LA, I asked three PD’s to share with me the one promotion in sports radio today that they viewed as a killer event. It wasn’t an easy one to answer. In fact, two referenced WIP’s Wing Bowl, which ended in 2018. Had I asked five or six other PD’s, they’d have likely been in the same boat, struggling to name three or four killer events.
I mentioned how the Mandy Awards at 710 ESPN in Los Angeles stood out, but this format should be able to deliver more than one standout promotion. I realize there are stations doing promotional events, and if they’re helping you produce revenue, great. I’m not telling you to abandon that strategy. But I will challenge you if you try to tell me sports radio’s report card on promotions in 2023 is superb. It is not.
One gentleman I listened to during the week who was attending a session shared one reason why this is the case. He was asked about creating ideas and said ‘we use a committee to brainstorm and find that sometimes the best ideas come from different departments, in fact, our last successful event was the idea of our engineer.’
I’m all for collaboration, and if you’re creating events that satisfy your goals, continue doing it. I’m not here to rain on your parade. But let me share an opinion some may view as unpopular. If the best ideas in your organization are coming from departments other than programming, you have a problem.
The program director and talent are supposed to be the people you turn to for leadership, ideas, passion, creativity, and execution. They’re supposed to be able to think of things that others can’t. Do you think Steven Spielberg or Quentin Tarantino would turn over the direction of their next film to others inside their companies? Imagine the focus of Ted Lasso’s next episode being decided by someone other than Jason Sudeikis, Brett Goldstein, and the rest of their writing team. You’d be wasting the talent of your best storytellers.
Radio companies pay premium dollars for elite programmers and hosts because they’re supposed to be able to bring things to life that only exists inside their brains. If your HR or engineering department are creating the station’s best promotions, you don’t have enough creativity coming from your programming team. That could be due to having a PD who lacks ideas and vision or it could be the result of the way your creative process is structured.
One of the things I enjoyed most as a PD was coming up with ideas that created buzz, ratings, and revenue. My job was to think and execute BIG, and whether it was Lucky Break in San Francisco, Stand For Stan at 101 ESPN in St. Louis, the Golden Ticket at 590 The Fan in St. Louis, the 20 in 20 tour or Goodbye Roast at 95.7 The Game or the Gridiron Gala in both cities, we produced buzz, grew ratings, and made money. If we did something and it failed, that was ok. I’d rather swing and miss than be afraid to try. I took that responsibility seriously, and feel that when you’re making calls by committee, you’re not allowing your best people to do what they’re best suited to do.
Case in point, I attended Boomer & Gio Live in Jersey City, NJ a few weeks ago. It was a fun event with a lot of different things going on. WFAN’s PD Spike Eskin worked the event on stage, and if you recall, the station made national news when Jets GM Joe Douglas said that Aaron Rodgers would end up in New York. There were multiple sales activations included throughout the show, and much of the fun content that took place on stage came from the creators. Because the FAN crew were allowed to do what they do best, the station produced a successful event. Had that been an ‘all departments contribute’ approach, it’d have not been the same show.
What Dan Mason said in Las Vegas was accurate. Radio has to get back to having fun but it also has to be unafraid to take risks. I fear that we worry so much about the ‘what ifs’ and the potential noise on social media that we’re killing creativity, and the next big idea.
If I asked you to list five GREAT sports radio promotions today, could you? And I’m not talking about golf tournaments, charitable bowling events, host debates or bar remotes. If I ask this same question in five years and we’re in the same spot, that’s going to say a lot about where we are as an industry. We have to excite ourselves, our listeners, and our advertisers because when we showcase our creativity in a way that no other medium can, we make a statement, which results in increased attention, and financial investment.
Some of that creative spirit is still alive. You see it in Boston with WEEI’s Jimmy Fund Telethon, and if you attended the Michael Kay Show 20-year anniversary special or Barstool’s Upfront, you saw what great planning, and execution looks like. But I also remember The Fanatic’s Celebrity Week, The Millen Man March in Detroit, Ticketfest in Dallas, Wing Bowl in Philadelphia, and 790 The Zone in Atlanta becoming a national sensation by creating multiple home run events.
I don’t believe enough brands today create events that deliver meaningful impact. Yet they’re needed. When done right, brands ascend to a different level. Sports radio has too many sharp, creative minds to not be creating the biggest and most successful promotions in all of media. If you work in programming and your station isn’t producing promotions that generate recall across the format, national media attention or revenues that change the fate of your next quarter, it’s time to step up your game. If you don’t, the interns, street team, and receptionist may soon be deciding the future direction of your brand’s promotional strategy.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Barrett Blogs
Reflecting on the 2023 BSM Summit
“Barrett Media president Jason Barrett reflects on last week’s BSM Summit in Los Angeles.”

Published
2 months agoon
March 27, 2023
One of the best parts about the world of sports is that every season ends with one team being crowned champion. It doesn’t exactly work that way managing a media company, even though we invest the same amount of time leading up to the BSM Summit, our equivalent of the Super Bowl or WrestleMania.
Having had a few days to recover and reflect after last week’s Summit in Los Angeles, I know that what we did last week was special. I’m a perfectionist and have a hard time patting myself on the back because I know there’s plenty we can do better, but last week, we hit a homerun. The venues at USC were perfect, the signage was spectacular, the tech ran well, the speakers were awesome, the crowd was great, and the sponsorship support was outstanding. It’s the first time I’ve walked away from an event and felt we accomplished what we set out to do. If time allows, check out Garrett Searight’s piece on some of the key takeaways from the show.
In 2018, Mitch Rosen invited me to utilize his space at Audacy Chicago to take a shot at trying to execute an event for PDs. Now here we are five years later with a few hundred people joining us from all across the industry. It’s pretty incredible. We’re only successful because a lot of people have come together to make sure we are. Without the speakers, sponsors, and staff around me stepping up to get things done, I’d just be a guy with an idea incapable of executing it.
In the next week or so we’ll be sharing video clips from the show on the BSM social media pages. I’m also planning to make full sessions available via on-demand for free for those who attended the show in California. If you didn’t come to the event and want to watch it online, it will be available for a small fee. Stay tuned for further details.
What matters most to me with the Summit is that folks in the room get something out of it. I thought many of our speakers delivered a ton of value this year, and there were a few WOW moments along the way as well. Colin and Rome were outstanding as expected, and Jay Glazer and Al Michaels’ speeches had everyone hanging on their next words. I thought the Shawn Michaels and Jack Rose led sessions were outside the box and well received, and I was beyond impressed by Joy Taylor, Mina Kimes, and Amanda Brown. We used 14 hours in that room to explore issues dealing with management, research, technology, programming, talent and social media, so it gave everyone a little bit of everything, which was the goal.
We did have a little bit of friction on stage during the Aircheck on Campus session, which wasn’t a bad thing. Personalities and programmers have passionate conversations inside the office every day. Rob, Mark and Scott just happened to have one on stage. All three are smart, talented, and willing to be candid. I thought that was healthy for the room.
I know networking is important at these type of events and there was plenty of opportunity for folks to do that. I look at it like this, if you can get face time with others, meet your heroes or folks you admire and pick up some ideas and insight in the process to elevate your business, that should justify it being worthy of a few days out of the office.
As crazy as it may sound, I step away from each of these events asking my team ‘is that the last one?’ I know I can create and execute a great conference, and I enjoy doing it, but I also don’t want to invest eight months of time building a show that becomes predictable and stale. It’s why I change speakers and topics frequently. This year’s lineup was phenomenal, and I’m so pleased with who we featured on stage and had in the room, but the competitor in me will also look back and say ‘Bill Simmons, Ice Cube and Lincoln Riley Should’ve Been On Stage Too!‘

If we do host an event in 2024, it will take place in either Boston, Chicago, Dallas or New York. You can cast your vote on BSMSummit.com.
I want to thank everyone who stopped me last week to share how much they enjoy this event. That support means a lot. I think Good Karma Brands broke a record with 20+ employees in attendance, and iHeart was also well represented, which was great to see. I was also excited to have 15-20 college students in the room. The more we can educate the next generation, the better it is for all of us. I also was thrilled to learn a few of our partners and attendees made time to arrange further business conversations. If two groups can help each other, that’s what it’s all about.
But as much as I love my radio brothers and sisters, I’ve noticed more folks showing up the past two years from areas outside of sports radio. That’s both exhilarating and concerning. This year we had folks in the room from WWE, Amazon, The Volume, Omaha Productions, Dirty Mo Media, Barstool Sports, Spotify, Blue Wire, Locked On, BetRivers, Bleav, etc.. I hope that trend continues because sports media is a lot larger of a business than sports radio. As I told the room, we’re not in the radio business, television business, audio or video business, we are in the content business. That covers a lot more ground for brands than focusing on one specific platform.
I’ve been on cloud nine for a few days because overall, this went as well as I could ask for. If there’s one thing I’d like to make better it’s that I hear from a lot of folks throughout the year who say they want to learn, meet new people and give themselves a competitive edge yet when an event exists that can help them do that, they’re not in the room. Some of my radio friends didn’t come because they weren’t asked to speak. Others said they couldn’t make it because their company wouldn’t cover the costs. A few said they thought the Summit was only for programming people not managers or sellers.
First, growing and selling an audience should matter to everyone not just programmers and hosts. GM’s and Sales Managers can gain a lot at this show. So can advertisers and agencies. I’m hoping to change that in the future. Second, I can’t tell you whether or not to prioritize attending but groups outside of radio are passionate about sports audio and video, and they’re finding ways to be in the room. At some point, you have to decide if investing in knowledge, ideas and relationships matters to you and your business. Your employer isn’t going to cover everything you want to do so especially when the economy isn’t strong. Sometimes you have to invest time and resources in yourself.
Many of you reading this website know my track record in the radio industry. I built my career in radio. My passion for the business remains strong. I consult brands all across the country, and root for the industry’s success. It’s why I sink my heart and soul into this event and share all that I do over two days because I want to help people grow their businesses.
But it is strange that over the course of four live events I’ve still not had one current radio CEO sit down for an in-depth sports media business conversation. It’d be one thing if they were pitched and I turned them down but that’s not the case. I’ve had great conversations and support outside of radio from Jimmy Pitaro, Eric Shanks, Erika Ayers, and John Skipper. Jeff Smulyan has been a huge supporter taking part in our awards ceremony, and we’ve had high ranking TV executives in the room watching the show. Maybe things will change in 2024 but whether they do or don’t, I’m going to focus on helping brands and individuals who gain value from this two day event, and continue challenging this industry to think and act differently.

Now that the 2023 BSM Summit is over, my focus shifts to supporting my clients and gearing up for a massive challenge, hosting our first BNM Summit for news media professionals. The conference will take place in Nashville, TV on September 13-14 at Vanderbilt University. I’ll be announcing the first group of speakers in April after the NAB. Tickets will go on sale at that time too.
I know it won’t be easy but I tend to do my best work when I’m out of my comfort zone. This is a space I have passion for and feel I can add something to so there’s only one thing left to do, get to work, and put together the news media equivalent of what we just created for sports media professionals last week in Los Angeles. That may be a tall order but if anyone is ready to meet the challenge head on, yours truly is certainly up to the task.
Thanks again for a spectacular time in Los Angeles. Onward and upward we go!

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.