Barrett Blogs
BSM Programming Summit Day 2

Published
5 years agoon
We’re live in Chicago for day 2 of the inaugural Barrett Sports Media programming summit hosted by Jason Barrett. This blog will be updated throughout the day so be sure to check back regularly for new information.
INTRODUCTION: Jason Barrett opens day 2 of the Barrett Sports Media programming summit welcoming back over 30 PD’s from around the country. Jason explains the importance of telling your brand story and how it pays dividends with listeners, advertisers and the people inside your own hallways. To illustrate the point, a video is played which shows how ESPN sells its impact across all platforms and why it benefits brands to associate with them.
SESSION 1 Day 2 – The State of National Sports Radio:
- Jason Dixon – SiriusXM
- Adam Delevitt – ESPN 1000
- Scott Shapiro – Fox Sports
Scott Shapiro – Our goal at the network is to bring in talent that local stations will find attractive. We provide a service for local brands by offering great personalities and resources that they wouldn’t be able to afford.
We strive to service our affiliates because we’re only as good as they are. Our most important stakeholders are our advertisers and affiliates. Having an open line of communication helps facilitate our brand in your local market.
To judge how a show is doing we try to look at the bigger picture. We look at every market every month but I try not to overreact. Looking at each book in each market and even at a national level is important for measuring where you are and aren’t making a difference.
We had our biggest digital month ever, our digital numbers are growing, but my number one goal is to make sure our digital audience knows where to hear us live and terrestrially. I wish we could do a better job of tracking and selling the digital audience numbers.
There’s a level of importance for national play-by-play, but viability is key. Unless we get a deal that makes sense to be profitable for our affiliates, we’re not going to sign a play-by-play deal to take a loss.
We have a lot of solo shows, the goal is to get the best talent and a lot of time the show gets built around that personality, but we still regularly incorporate other voices into the show.
Adam Delevitt – Content is king. Covering a big local story is harder to do with a national show, but a national show in a local market can work if it’s the right fit. Mike and Mike had a lot of local ties to Chicago. Greeny worked at The Score, Golic played at Notre Dame, they were in Chicago a lot so it worked.
National hosts need to buy into wanting their show to work in all markets. Hosts may not want to do 80 promos after hosting a four-hour show, but it’s something they need to do to work in other markets. We try to send the network shows a lot of content.
National play-by-play is important. A weekday national baseball game might not do great, but even if you’re only taking a little bit of the audience away from the local broadcast, it helps and having the playoffs and championship games are great.
Exclusivity of all ESPN personalities being on our station can be great and I’ll make a call if I hear an ESPN personality on a different station in the market, but sometimes I also think is it actually a bad thing? If Jay Bilas goes on a non-ESPN station and promotes the brand for 10 minutes it might not be a bad thing. It’s certainly not the end of the world.
Jason Dixon – Having Mike and Mike in Raleigh gave me a much better morning show than I could afford, but it was my job to recognize when we needed to go local. If Duke played Carolina the next morning we’d decide if it made more sense to do a local morning show and skip Mike and Mike that day. Local wins 99% of the time, but good content is still good content.
The relationships with the network producers, hosts, affiliate rep and programmers are important. I could sometimes get the national guys to read something for our station, and we’d also send big local stories to the network shows which when it made sense, they’d talk about.
I try to use the ear test in determining our success at SiriusXM. We track all data, but we can’t judge or track ratings the way terrestrial radio does. We’re niche radio, and we try to identify which brands work and stay on our hosts, producers and PD’s to make sure their putting out a great product everyday. On one hand there’s the freedom to live without these numbers, but on the other hand I don’t have this data to judge how a show is doing.
We have Mad Dog Sports Radio, and in my perfect world I’d love to see a west coast version, a southern version, a mid-west version and try to get sports stations covering different parts of the country. It would be expensive, but it’s one thing I’d like to see in the future.
Any SiriusXM talent that another station wants to put on the air as a guest, let me know. We love to have our talent promoting the brand and being heard on other stations. You can’t have Howard, but any SiriusXM sports talent is welcome to be a guest on any terrestrial station.
SESSION 2 Day 2 – Nielsen:
- Jon Miller – Nielsen
Overall radio listening is down. Fragmentation in the industry, radio listeners have other platform options, and those platforms are experiencing an increase as terrestrial radio slowly decreases.
The daily cume is declining slowly. More people are choosing to use other forms of media everyday, so the daily audience from terrestrial radio is decreasing. Each month there is a little less AM/FM radio use than there was last year. Overall audio listening is up, but radio use is declining.
It’s important to focus on the “vertical” model, to get as many tune-ins during the day as you can. You need to get the morning listener to come back and listen in the afternoon, but you also need to use the “horizontal” model, making sure you get the listener to come back tomorrow and everyday in the week. Starbucks doesn’t try to get you to buy a larger cup of coffee when you’re there, they try to get you to come back tomorrow. Starbucks’ goal isn’t to have the current customer spend more while they’re in the store, it’s goal is to make sure they become a repeat customer. They look to sell more cups of coffee, not larger cups. The same applies to sports radio.
We spend 80 hours a week consuming content. Why should people choose radio? Why should they choose your brand? There are niche’s carved in talk radio that the consumer can only get from your brand.
Nielsen is evolving, we’re figuring out the digital numbers. Currently, you get the most credit for your terrestrial brand. Nielsen has not caught up to measuring digital platforms. We understand stations are promoting their digital brand and need to get credit for those numbers, but measuring that audience has been more challenging than we originally thought.
SESSION 3 Day 2 – Bringing Your Imaging to Life:
- Jim Cutler
It’s effective to learn by listening to bad examples. Put content into your imaging, not “fluff.” Replace fluff with topical content, don’t waste time on-air.
Avoid:
– “You just don’t know what you’re going to get with the —- Show.”
– “The —- Show is unpredictable, you never know what you’re going to hear next.”
Focus on highlighting good content and what’s happening right now. News talk and sports talk is a gift because it provides content to promote and put into your imaging.
Imagine if breaking news alerts on your phone said “Things are happening out there,” rather than giving you an actual alert or update.
You can’t say you’re “cool” and relevant by using liners that say “we’re number 1.” Your listeners and callers are a better way of promoting that success and relevancy.
Recognize how long thirty seconds to your audience is. If the promo or on-air discussion is wandering it will make your audience leave fast. Jim then played an audio sample where he muttered “blah, blah, blah blah, blah” for thirty seconds. It felt like an eternity inside the room. Programmers were reminded to maximize the time available to engage listeners.
Where do you get non-filler for your station? Look at YouTube. There are a lot of bad aspiring broadcasters posting things on YouTube, but there are a lot of great ones too. You no longer need a radio station to create content, but radio station’s are still magical and if you invest the time you can find good undiscovered talent.
Working with a radio station is a great way to promote a podcast. Anybody can launch a podcast, but a radio station pushing the podcast as “this is something we can’t say on-air,” rather than just saying, “listen to more in our podcast,” is a way to get listeners.
Jim also played a few video samples demonstrating how music artists use fans in their videos to show how they matter, and closed out by answering questions from the room.
SESSION 4 Day 2 – Developing Your Social Voice (moderated by Bill Adee, VSiN):
- Brad Boron – Chicago White Sox
- Jen Tulicki – Chicago Bears
- Dan Moriarty – Chicago Bulls
Brad Boron – We work a little with players on how to use social media. We show them what previously worked and didn’t work. We can’t go down the road of telling players you should post this and you shouldn’t post that because fans are savvy and can tell what is genuine and what is not. When Twitter was in its infancy, we could probably tweet on behalf of a player but now fans can tell right away.
People get news from many avenues. We look at our account as what happens if we could never break news again? We try to enhance information, not be a breaking source of information. If someone comes to us for breaking news, great, but for people that already saw the news, they can still get something extra from our account.
We have a content calendar, but we don’t need to follow it too strictly. We have a weekly content meeting where everyone brings in ideas. The best thing that anyone can do to create content is step back and think about what’s something we can provide that no one else will.
I tell players, “Be crazy but with a purpose.”
Jen Tulicki – One of the great things about social media is it’s gray, there are no black and white rules for what will happen when you show up to work in the morning. You never know what news can break that will change your content for a day. Keep Twitter open and available to listen to your audience and fans.
A good social media post is authentic and we try to push the limits to create thumb-stopping videos and graphics. When a follower is continuously scrolling, we want to make sure they stop on a Bears post.
Instagram is easy to delight our fans with graphics. We put stories on Twitter and Facebook to try and drive people to our website. Right now we’re prioritizing Instagram, creating those thumb-stopping graphics and engaging videos to attract people that tend to use Instagram as an escape from the news stories on Twitter, or posts from their friends and family on Facebook.
Quality over quantity is the smart way to approach social media. Make sure you’re choosing relevant posts that offers something to fans. We have a fan base of 75,000 on Snapchat and 700,000 on Instagram so prioritizing is something we have to do. Although we want to be part of the fan experience in every social space, I’m OK with being less active on Snapchat and more focused on other platforms where we have higher interest.
As far as bombarding your fans with aggressive posts on Facebook are concerned, use common sense. You don’t want your social media account to be seen as the friend that never shuts up.
Dan Moriarty – We try to talk to our entire fan-base, we have male and female fans of varying ages and backgrounds. How do we differentiate ourselves from other social media accounts Bulls’ fans are following?
What’s happening in the real world is the biggest thing for us. You need to “strike when the iron’s hot.” If we’re losing by 20 points at halftime I’ll send half of our team home because we can put out great content, but if it’s coming after a loss, the interest isn’t there. When Zach LaVine came back from his injury and had a good game in a win against his former team, we had the full social media team going until after midnight because fans were interested.
Buying followers is something that can quickly make you irrelevant. An account might have 50,000 followers, but if their content is only getting one like, or less activity than an account with 1,000 followers, you quickly realize which accounts have legitimate followers. The only way to gain followers is through good content.
At the Bulls we institute a six pillars strategy and for content to be posted it must check three of those six boxes. It also can’t be something that isn’t in line with our six pillars.
Your goal should be to create content that will lead to multiple posts across all platforms. To do that you have to use different images, videos, shorter clips, behind the scenes stuff, etc. By taking one piece of content and featuring in different ways, it allows you to get the most out of it and it doesn’t become boring or repetitive for the consumer.
If a radio company is suggesting to post nearly fifty times a day on Facebook that seems like a disaster waiting to happen to me. However, I’ve seen the head of Facebook Sports show data about what works and high frequency can provide a big payoff, but most of the time it is driven by video. If you’re not using video and just posting 50 times a day, that’s not going to help you serve your fans. It’s only going to drive them away.
Social Media Tips:
– Get an iPhone Gimbal to stabilize and prevent shaky videos
– Use scheduling tools to continuously make social media posts
– Spend money on software
– Use Slack
– Use graphics
SESSION 5 Day 2 – Inside the Millennial Mind (moderated by Dave Zaslowsky):
- Bernie Goin – I.M.S.
- Julio Rasseuo – I.M.S.
- Joey Alexander – I.M.S.
Julio Rasseuo – I still listen to regular radio, I use Tune-In to hear broadcasters throughout the country. I’ve been a cord cutter for four years but I have a TV that was gifted to me except it’s never been plugged in.
Some of the personal talk and fluff is fine. I’m investing my hours with a host on a daily basis so I don’t mind getting to know them, but you still want good sports content.
Content is key. It doesn’t even need to be on the air. If you’re a right’s holder give me as much team coverage as you can using podcasts. In-terms of politics, unfortunately the line is blurred sometimes and you need to talk and listen to a political conversation.
I admire Dave Portnoy. I’m not a Barstool reader or fan of the brand, but I admire what he built. He took a risk with a digital platform and that’s an area where everyone in sports radio should be taking risks.
Joey Alexander – I had a teacher suggest reading a newspaper, but I didn’t even know where to get one. It was foreign to me. I get my news on Bleacher Report. I never needed the paper.
Sometimes I’ll hear a station talking about something outside of sports, and it might be funny for a minute or two, but I want them to quickly get back into sports. Too much time gets wasted on the air and as a younger guy I just don’t have time for it.
One topic which quickly turns me off is politics. I don’t care about a host’s political opinions. I hate hearing anything about politics on a sports talk show. It’s caused me to venture away from ESPN’s TV shows. “I go to sports to get away from the world, not hear about the world.”
Bernie Goin – I still like reading an actual newspaper, and like the variety that it provides.
Listening to sports talk radio, I find I don’t get enough sports. After listening to a show I still need to search to get more sports because they talk too much about their personal life, especially on a local level.
A better way to humanize yourself is to tell me about your experiences as a fan, rather than your experiences outside of sports.
If I get a breaking news alert on my phone, I’m not going to the radio or TV to tell me what’s going on, I do my own research to find more information on a story.
Radio hosts need to portray that they care about what’s going on. If you need to be angry about a team then do that. As a fan, I don’t want to hear a host making excuses for a team or player.
SESSION 6 Day 2 – The BSM Blitz:
- Jason Barrett – BSM
Using social media in a creative way helps you drive tune-ins and extend your brand’s connection to the audience. Look at the way Joe Fortenbaugh promotes his guests each morning on 95.7 The Game in the Bay Area. It’s smart, creative, local and much more likely to grab a listener’s attention than the useless tweets some hosts send out with few lines of text and no real call to action.
JB showed some additional samples of stations using social well, and others filling space rather than using it to their benefit. One example that stood out was how WIP in Philadelphia captured video of their broadcast team during the final call of the Super Bowl and shared it with their fans. The views and responses were tremendous.
For a PD, doing a Twitter takeover or Facebook Live is a smart way to build a connection to the audience. It’s free research and it shows you value your listeners. Even more importantly, it becomes on-air content because your on-air talent can have fun with.
Branded content has become a must for advertisers. You’re going to need ideas to generate larger dollars in the future. Relying on spots and added value features is a recipe for disaster. Too often programmers are conditioned to say NO to advertising requests but if you’re the brains of the operation and trusted to know talent and creative content then you should also be able to help your sellers find ways of weaving business into content.
If you think branded content is posting an ad on Facebook or Twitter or doing a video endorsement for a client, then you’re asleep at the wheel. It’s about making the client look cool and feel naturally connected to your programming. A video sample was then shown which highlighted a 101 ESPN video spot, Bad Joke Telling by Whistle Sports and the Tourism Australia ad. Barstool is another brand which is brilliant at connecting clients to content in a smart way.
JB asked the room to raise their hand if their brand currently sold merchandise. Not one PD said they were selling brand related merchandise. JB pointed out “the narrative on the industry is that revenues are flat to down, your brands pump out content 24-hours a day, so why on earth are you not using your megaphone and social platforms to sell product?”
Craig Carton sells merchandise on his website. Crossing Broad in Philadelphia did a great job of selling Eagles shirts right after the Eagles won the Super Bowl. Clay Travis has become a brilliant marketer using Outkick The Coverage to move t-shirts. Perhaps the most perplexing example though is Barstool Sports who sold Mike Francesa t-shirts promoting great slogans such as “Can’t spell Francesa without FAN” and “Numbah One” while WFAN didn’t.
You have to recognize the connection your talent have in the marketplace and pick up on the catchy things they say and do and turn them around quickly because you’re leaving money on the table. Barstool says merchandising represents a third of their business. At this point, sports radio should be more than motivated to add NTR dollars.
In sports radio circles, KFAN in Minneapolis created cool t-shirts for the Minneapolis State Fair and by all indications they were a hit yet after the fair they’re not available on their website. Why not? What if ESPN New York had created a Don LaGreca t-shirt that read “FIX THAT” after he had his meltdown on the air a few weeks ago? How much product would either of the Houston sports stations moved if they had pounced and created merchandise after the Josh Innes-Seth Payne situation on radio row?
The bottom line, you have to recognize what catches fire, react, and understand how merchandise can drive extra revenue for your brands. There’s no downside to it either. If customer demand isn’t there, you don’t print. If there is, you do and it becomes additional revenue. This should be a no-brainer.
If your airwaves are valuable enough to advertisers to purchase time on to sell products and important enough to audiences to listen to your content, then why aren’t you using the same space to grow your business? If it means eliminating a few programming promos to run merchandising promos it’ll be worth the adjustment.
Shows need to be less predictable and programmers have to study the content, not just the ratings. Look at the times when you take calls, bring guests on or even talk about specific teams. Does a feature still have legs or has it run its course? If you don’t surprise your audience, don’t be surprised when they’re tuning out due to fatigue.
Events such as a celebrity roast, or awesome events like Wing Bowl in Philly or Ticket Stock in Dallas are so important, especially during the dead zones of the sports calendar. They allow you to make money plus create content and drive ratings during otherwise slower times. Too often we live day to day and trust that the topics of the day will be enough but what good are they if the audience sees no reason to out on the radio? Case in point, the week of the All-Star game in MLB.
SESSION 7 Day 2 – The Talent Perspective (moderated by Jeff Rickard):
- David Kaplan – ESPN 1000
- Laurence Holmes – 670 The Score
David Kaplan – I appreciate the honest feedback from my program director. After a show, he lets me know what segments he felt worked or didn’t. The PD should be giving feedback, partaking in meetings and communicating with me, “Good, bad or indifferent, but let’s talk.”
I don’t want to hear from the PD during the show. I know there’s a line. I’m going to be opinionated and try different things, but it’s important to know the PD has my back. You also need to have a boss that’s able to let you make fun of them on air because it’s entertaining and relatable.
My producer isn’t afraid to say to me “No, you’re out of your mind,” and I value that. It takes time to build trust with a producer to have that conversation, but that back and forth and trust between host and producer is what creates good content. I want my producers to get involved on-air. I want the show to sound like three people having a good time, not just one person preaching.
Too many times people use guests as a time filler. We’ve gotten away from jamming eight guests into a show and having guests for guests sake. Fans tune into the show to hear my opinion, not a show packed with guests.
I despise people that tweet “Touchdown Bears.” I love engaging on social media. You can blast at me, I’ll come back at you. If someone’s really over the top I’ll mute them because I don’t want them to get the satisfaction of being blocked.
Don’t say “good morning everybody,” say “good morning to you.” I’m not talking to everybody, I’m talking to you and engaging on social media is a way to develop that personal connection. One way I do that beyond the show, I’ll record videos of myself talking about stuff, tweet them out and use them to drive a reason to tune in at 9am.
Laurence Holmes – I want my PD to know that I understand what the current topics are, but if I’m trying something else, I’m doing it for a reason. I’m trying to bring in a new audience. If it fails, I’m okay with my PD saying don’t do that again.
If I get to the end of a show and we’ve used all the content I spoke to my producer about prior to the show, I feel the show was a failure because it means something didn’t take off or we had just enough content and sputtered towards the end. I want a show to end with me saying we didn’t get to everything we planned.
Sometimes I get feedback from my PD during a segment, but usually it’s a funny text. If there’s something he didn’t think worked, it will wait until after the show. I want there to be two-way communication. It can be great to have a PD offer a clear set of eyes to give a small suggestion, change things around a bit to make it better.
I realized over the last few years that I needed to get younger producers. I need to make sure I’m updating my references because the 25 year old in the car might not understand them. As a host, we think we know everything that’s going on, but I need a younger producer to tell me “I don’t know what you’re talking about.”
If you’re filling time on your radio station than your wasting my time. I don’t want you thinking about a segment that will just get us from point A to point B, anyone can fill time, not everyone can program time.
It’s important to understand where you can stretch segments and when you need to pay attention the clock. PD’s know when we need to break and when we need to tease a segment, and hosts can all do a better job of paying better attention to the formatics of a show.
The most difficult thing for me is understanding the matrix of how many calls to take. There are days you have to take calls the whole show, but nothing can derail a show faster than a terrible call. I’ve done four hour shows with zero phone calls and walked away saying that was a great show. I’ve done a show filled with calls that I thought was a great show. I struggle with the daily balance of “should I be creating segments that generate calls or not?”
I remind people on social media that we’re watching a show together. The social connection is similar to the one you build on air. They’re both intimate mediums. People follow you because they want your opinion and think your funny, so reach out to them, make them feel good about interacting with you and in turn they’ll listen to you.
SESSION 8 Day 2 – Winning With and Without Play-by-Play (moderated by John Hanson):
- Mitch Rosen – 670 The Score
- Ryan Maguire – KIRO-FM
- Hoss Neupert – 101 ESPN
Mitch Rosen – The Bulls was a future buy. We helped out this year since they were in need of a new partner, and we’re hopeful of them being a playoff team next year. We push the Cubs a lot because being known as “The home of the Cubs” is priceless. Nielsen told us the Cubs winning the world series was the highest rated event ever on Chicago radio.
If the team is winning, people are going to listen regardless of who is in your broadcast booth. There are certain exceptions but the team brands will always draw an audience if they’re performing.
The Cubs are great content and better than any local show when they’re winning. Some ratings success is attributed to having the Cubs, and some will say “they won because of the Cubs,” and I say “So what.” We pay a lot of money to be “the home of the Cubs,” so I’m not going to apologize for it helping us bring in a massive audience.
We’re not the flagship for the Bears, but we use “Bears Monday” and “Bears Friday” where we fill the shows with Bears content. We’re not the flagship, but we have days where we can legally use the “Bears” name and brand.
Ryan Maguire – The trick, besides monetizing being a flagship, is finding a way to take the broadcast cume and turn it into listening during primetime, M-F 6a-7p.
There is no replacement for live sports. We live in an era of “on-demand,” and you don’t need to listen to your favorite radio show or watch you favorite television show live because you can access it later on-demand. There’s no replacement though for live sports.
Experiential things from a rights deal is important. Getting tickets to give to sponsors, not only to games, but other events going on at the stadium.
If a competing station is the flagship, you can do a longer pre and post-game show, build better shows, offer better coverage. Encroach on the flagship space until you get pushed back. It’s always better to ask for forgiveness, not permission.
Chris “Hoss” Neupert – We can get so deep in the rabbit hole of being controlled by a right’s deal and needing to provide them with so much programming. We were the flagship station of the Rams, but since they’ve moved to Los Angeles our ratings have stayed strong and even increased. We cover the team, but we don’t try to alienate the audience.
Use your rights deals to help you gain better access to coaches and players to help drive more listening to your weekday shows. Tickets are always important too for listening and sales purposes.
Showcase the games even if you don’t have them on your station. It’s OK to talk about games broadcast on other stations, both on-air and through social media. It tells fans where to find them and they’re not dumb. They’ll appreciate you more for your approach. They’ll also come back to listen and react on your airwaves.
When you’re not the flagship you can be more honest and you can market yourself that way. Most flagship pre and post-game shows are based around ads and crappy features, so be better than that. Talent matters and you can build a better show with honest coverage.
CLOSING: JB then went around the room with each programmer asking for their takeaways from the two-day event. Many applauded BSM for putting on an action packed show but JB reminded them that it only works when programmers take the initiative to get out of the office and invest in their own development. Even if someone isn’t able to attend a BSM programming summit, getting to a different event and picking up a few new tricks is critical to a brand leader’s professional development.
Brandon Contes is a freelance writer for BSM. He can be found on Twitter @BrandonContes. To reach him by email click here.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.

Barrett Blogs
ESPN Has Made It Clear, Radio Is Not a Priority
“What’s unfolding now at the worldwide leader is disheartening because it could have been avoided.”

Published
4 weeks agoon
April 26, 2023
This is not a column I wanted to write. For years, I’ve expressed how much better the industry is when ESPN Radio is healthy. I’ve maintained friendships at the network, the company has supported our BSM Summit, and I reflect fondly on the few years I spent working there earlier in my career. It was a special place to work and I learned a lot about becoming a pro in Bristol.
But this ESPN Radio is not the one that I and many others were fortunate to be a part of under Bruce Gilbert. It is not the one that Traug Keller, Scott Masteller, and other radio-first believers oversaw. This current version lacks radio instincts, focus, passion, and care. That may be an opinion that folks in Bristol, New York, and Los Angeles offices don’t want to hear but the decisions made in recent years make it difficult to see it any other way.
ESPN Radio used to obsess over serving the sports fan, its radio affiliates, and network advertising partners. But serving the company’s television and digital interests is what matters most now. Relationships with radio operators have changed, interest in operating local markets has decreased, and though I’m sure some will defend the network’s interest in satisfying advertising partners, it’s hard to do that a day after the entire national audio sales team was gutted. Thankfully Good Karma Brands is passionate about the audio business and helping their sales efforts. If they weren’t involved, who would be leading the charge in Bristol?
I didn’t start this week planning to drop a truth bomb but as I sat here on Tuesday and fielded text after text and call after call, I couldn’t help but be disappointed and upset. This network has been a staple of the industry for over thirty years. Yet in less than ten it feels they’re closer to turning off the lights than celebrating success. That should not happen when you have the partnerships, history, and talent that ESPN has.
What saddens me is that it didn’t have to reach this point. ESPN Radio had chances to sell in the past to outside parties. They declined. Folks inside of Disney felt the network was worth more. Well, how’s that looking now? If the company wasn’t going to commit to doing it the right way, and was just going to cut its way to the bottom, why stand in the way of others who’d pay to save it? It’s eerily similar to what just happened with Buzzfeed News. The company thought it was better than it was, and within a few years, the whole thing crumbled.
If this were the first time the network looked bad, I’d go easier on them. I understand the business, and sometimes brands or companies make mistakes or have to make difficult choices. It’s why I didn’t bury the network when Mike and Mike ended. Though I knew replacing their stability in mornings would be tough, I felt the network had earned enough clout over the prior years to be given the benefit of the doubt with a new show/lineup. I also applauded the company for replacing Zubin with Max, defended paying Stephen A. Smith top dollar, and supported GetUp! when it was popular to predict the show’s funeral.
But how can leadership in Bristol expect radio operators to trust their decision making at this point? I’ve talked to network executives privately and publicly about these issues for years, and have been told repeatedly that the radio business matters to them and becoming more consistent was a priority. At some point though the actions need to match the words. Unfortunately the only consistency taking place is change, and it often isn’t for the better.
I’ve lost count of the phone calls, texts, emails and direct messages I’ve fielded from PDs, executives, market managers, and ad agency professionals who’ve asked ‘should I be doing business with this network? Can you help me rebrand and redesign my radio station without ESPN Radio?‘ Yesterday alone I took five calls including from two who have expiring deals coming up. Think they’re in a rush to extend a partnership given what’s going on?
If you turn back the clock, some will say that things began to go in the wrong direction when Bruce Gilbert and Dan Patrick left. Though those were big losses, there was still a lot of confidence across the industry in ESPN Radio after they left. The early signs of issues at the network really started in 2014. That’s when Scott Masteller and Scott Shapiro departed. Masteller went on to program WBAL in Baltimore, and Shapiro teamed up with Don Martin to strengthen FOX Sports Radio.
Fast forward to 2020, and the heart and soul of the network, Traug Keller retired. Traug had more in the tank when he signed off, and when I talked to him prior to his exit, he denied being forced out or having concerns about the future direction of the network. Those who know Traug, know that’s he’s a class act and not one to air dirty laundry. But I also know he’s smart. As I look back now, I can’t help but wonder if he knew the ship was headed for an iceberg. I have no doubt that the network would be in better shape today if he were still there.
After Traug’s exit, a year later, Tim McCarthy was let go in New York. The network even cut ties with longtime voice talents Jim and Dawn Cutler, though they stayed on the company’s top stations in NY and LA.
Though I hated to see all of them go because they were good at their jobs and valuable to the network, the one that made a little more sense was Tim’s exit because that had more to do with Good Karma taking over in New York. Tim has since landed with the Broadcasters Foundation of America, and Vinny DiMarco is now leading 98.7 ESPN NY, and I’m a fan of both men.
But now here we are in 2023, and once again, the folks being shown the door are the people who dedicated their lives to radio. Among the casualties, Scott McCarthy, the network’s SVP of Audio, Pete Gianesini, Senior Director of Digital Audio, Louise Cornetta, Digital Audio Program Director, and two good local sports radio programmers, Ryan Hurley at 98.7 ESPN NY, and Amanda Brown at ESPN LA 710. All of them good, talented people with track records of success in the format. I struggle to explain how ESPN Radio is better today without them.
By the way, I haven’t even touched the talent department yet. But let’s go there next.
In less than eight years, ESPN Radio’s morning show has featured Mike & Mike, Golic & Wingo (Mike Golic Jr. and Jason Fitz were added as contributing voices), Keyshawn, JWill & Zubin, and Keyshawn, JWill and Max. Middays have included Colin Cowherd, Dan Le Batard and Stugotz, Scott Van Pelt, Ryen Russillo, Danny Kanell, Will Cain, Mike Greenberg, Jason Fitz, Stephen A. Smith, Bart & Hahn, and Fitz and Harry Douglas. Afternoons have been a combination of Le Batard and Stugotz, Bomani Jones, Jalen & Jacoby, Golic Jr. & Chiney, Canty & Golic Jr. & Canty and Carlin. I could run down the changes at night too, but you get the picture.
As a former programmer and current consultant, I know that radio is a relationship listen and investment. You can’t build an audience and attract sponsor support for talent and shows if the product constantly changes. Most PDs or executives who make this many changes during a short period of time, usually aren’t around very long. Yet ESPN has allowed this to continue, which leaves me to question how much they value their radio network.
Look, I’m sure this is a tough week for those in management at ESPN. Having to tell folks they’re not being retained and watch friends say goodbye is a crummy part of the job. I’m sure some have even fought to try and avoid this bloodbath. But when the news comes down from up above that 7,000 jobs are being eliminated, it’s not a question of whether or not people are talented and valuable, it’s simply about the bottom line. I feel for the folks at ESPN who have to deliver the bad news this week but also for those who are staying and now have limited support around them to make a difference.
By decimating the radio department there are now bigger questions to be answered by Jimmy, Burke, Dave, Norby and the rest of the management team. How much does ESPN value the radio business and the stations they’re in business with? If most of the people who’ve built relationships with local stations are gone, talented programmers are being ousted, talent changes happen far too frequently, and the company becomes less involved in local markets, why is anyone to believe this space matters to ESPN? What exactly are stations gaining from partnerships besides the use of four letters and the opportunity to air play by play events?
The network expects these stations to provide them with inventory, rights fees, branding, promotion, and clearance of certain programs so isn’t it fair of stations to have expectations of the network too? Don’t radio network partners deserve consistent quality programming, relationships with managers who prioritize audio, and less negative PR?
Most who I talk to about this situation believe the network’s glory days are gone. That’s fine. Just because this isn’t the ESPN Radio of 2005 doesn’t mean it can’t be great. The product exists now to primarily serve mid to small market operators who can’t afford local content, major market stations who don’t want to spend on evening and overnight shows, and company owned stations that can be utilized to promote the company’s digital and television content. ESPN does gain value for their radio shows on TV and podcast platforms, but those benefit the company much more than their radio partners.
The general feeling in industry circles is that FOX Sports Radio now delivers the best national radio product, CBS Sports Radio has better consistency but similar east coast content issues, and others don’t have strong enough brand recognition or content to justify a change. If sports betting continues to gain mainstream acceptance and bring cash into the marketplace, that could help outlets like VSiN, BetQL, and SportsGrid gain greater traction. If Outkick gets more aggressive with offering content to local markets, especially in the south and Midwest, that could be another interesting option.
The bigger question is whether there’s enough audience, revenue, and excitement for national content in today’s sports radio space. If most major markets are focused on local, is there enough out there in rural America to keep networks excited?
I do know that just ten years ago CBS Radio entered the space because they saw value in it. NBC Sports Radio leaped in too. FOX Sports Radio went all-in for Colin Cowherd, and ESPN Radio was healthy. Even SiriusXM continues to expand its national offerings, and three sports betting networks saw value in pursuing national distribution. It’s hard to convince me that there isn’t financial upside for national sports radio brands in today’s media environment. It may not be a big ratings play but from a business standpoint there is value.
What’s unfolding now at the worldwide leader is disheartening because it could have been avoided. Instead, brands have been damaged, relationships changed, jobs lost, and questions raised about future viability.
If the world’s leading sports operator values radio, they’ll prioritize restoring confidence across the industry. A good start would be putting people in place who champion radio’s future, and make decisions that best serve the radio brands carrying their product. If they can’t do that, then maybe it’s time to step aside, and let someone else try. I know a few groups who’d be happy to take a shot at restoring the network’s pride.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Barrett Blogs
Radio Must Bring Back The Fun
“The promotions you’re creating are not producing massive recall across the format, national media attention or revenues that change the fate of your next quarter.”

Published
1 month agoon
April 20, 2023
Five and a half days in Las Vegas can feel like an eternity. Especially when you’re in town for business not pleasure. But though I’d rather sleep in my own bed, eat at home, and avoid walking from convention hall to convention hall, I’m glad I made the trip because the NAB Show delivered.
Many media members have attended this event over the years, and it’s easy to come up with reasons not to attend. Budgets are tight, you can’t afford to be out of the office, or you think it isn’t beneficial. That’s where I’ll take exception. If you can’t find something of value at a five-day event that exists to serve broadcasters and brands, that’s on you, not the conference.
Over the past few days, I did what many do and took necessary business meetings at Encore, but I also listened to speakers offer valuable insights on artificial intelligence, marketing, programming, technology, dashboard connectivity, the future of AM radio, and more. All of these are subjects that should matter to media professionals. Having Brett Goldstein (Ted Lasso star Roy Kent) on hand to talk about content creation was an added bonus.
As I spent my final hour inside the North Hall on Wednesday, I couldn’t help but think about how large this event is, what goes into creating it, and how many different industries and brands are represented at it. What the NAB does to make this event possible for sixty-five thousand plus is amazing, and I commend all involved because it truly is informative, and it helps bring together business leaders and brands to help move our industry forward.
There were many takeaways from the conference sessions, but one in particular stood out. I thought Mike McVay’s session with J.D. Crowley and Paul Suchman of Audacy was excellent. Crowley’s insights on listener choice, distribution, and personalization were spot on, and I was very impressed with Suchman’s feedback on some of the behavior testing Audacy has done to learn how consumers respond to different types of content and messaging.
Crowley’s final message about people in the audio industry needing to be proud of the business they’re in was easy for me to relate to because I feel similarly. This is a great business to be in. I get tired of hearing folks in and out of the industry tear it down. So much attention gets placed on who exceeded revenue goals, what a brand’s ratings were, and what a company’s stock price is, losing sight of the more important part, our brands, personalities, and content, and the way they’re received by those who consume it.
Additionally, I was honored to speak about the growth of BSM and BNM. Joe D’Angelo of Xperi and Pierre Bouvard of Cumulus Media treated folks to information on advertising and in-car data, and Erica Farber, Tim Bronsil, and Mary DelGrande did a nice job guiding multiple business conversations. I also enjoyed stopping by the Veritone booth and learning about their products and staff. My only regret, I missed Buzz Knight’s session with Nielsen’s new audio team due to a business meeting running long. Thankfully Inside Radio put together a detailed recap of what was discussed.
But what I want to draw attention to most is something Dan Mason said on stage during his acceptance speech when receiving the Lowry Mays Award at the Broadcasters Foundation of America breakfast. It’s something I raised at last month’s BSM Summit.
After sharing how local is a key differentiator in helping radio stand apart from other forms of media, and reminding everyone about the importance of longevity, Mason said that radio has to get back to having fun. He shared a story of a promotion he was part of in the 1970’s that wouldn’t fly today. It was a short people’s convention that included six-ounce drinks, pigs in a blanket, and strawberry shortcake. The event put his radio station on NBC Nightly News, and created a ton of buzz.
Just because that type of event wouldn’t work in 2023, doesn’t mean others can’t. We have got to create special events that produce national attention, local market interest, and fear of missing out spending. This is what radio is supposed to be exceptional at yet it doesn’t happen enough.
At our Summit in LA, I asked three PD’s to share with me the one promotion in sports radio today that they viewed as a killer event. It wasn’t an easy one to answer. In fact, two referenced WIP’s Wing Bowl, which ended in 2018. Had I asked five or six other PD’s, they’d have likely been in the same boat, struggling to name three or four killer events.
I mentioned how the Mandy Awards at 710 ESPN in Los Angeles stood out, but this format should be able to deliver more than one standout promotion. I realize there are stations doing promotional events, and if they’re helping you produce revenue, great. I’m not telling you to abandon that strategy. But I will challenge you if you try to tell me sports radio’s report card on promotions in 2023 is superb. It is not.
One gentleman I listened to during the week who was attending a session shared one reason why this is the case. He was asked about creating ideas and said ‘we use a committee to brainstorm and find that sometimes the best ideas come from different departments, in fact, our last successful event was the idea of our engineer.’
I’m all for collaboration, and if you’re creating events that satisfy your goals, continue doing it. I’m not here to rain on your parade. But let me share an opinion some may view as unpopular. If the best ideas in your organization are coming from departments other than programming, you have a problem.
The program director and talent are supposed to be the people you turn to for leadership, ideas, passion, creativity, and execution. They’re supposed to be able to think of things that others can’t. Do you think Steven Spielberg or Quentin Tarantino would turn over the direction of their next film to others inside their companies? Imagine the focus of Ted Lasso’s next episode being decided by someone other than Jason Sudeikis, Brett Goldstein, and the rest of their writing team. You’d be wasting the talent of your best storytellers.
Radio companies pay premium dollars for elite programmers and hosts because they’re supposed to be able to bring things to life that only exists inside their brains. If your HR or engineering department are creating the station’s best promotions, you don’t have enough creativity coming from your programming team. That could be due to having a PD who lacks ideas and vision or it could be the result of the way your creative process is structured.
One of the things I enjoyed most as a PD was coming up with ideas that created buzz, ratings, and revenue. My job was to think and execute BIG, and whether it was Lucky Break in San Francisco, Stand For Stan at 101 ESPN in St. Louis, the Golden Ticket at 590 The Fan in St. Louis, the 20 in 20 tour or Goodbye Roast at 95.7 The Game or the Gridiron Gala in both cities, we produced buzz, grew ratings, and made money. If we did something and it failed, that was ok. I’d rather swing and miss than be afraid to try. I took that responsibility seriously, and feel that when you’re making calls by committee, you’re not allowing your best people to do what they’re best suited to do.
Case in point, I attended Boomer & Gio Live in Jersey City, NJ a few weeks ago. It was a fun event with a lot of different things going on. WFAN’s PD Spike Eskin worked the event on stage, and if you recall, the station made national news when Jets GM Joe Douglas said that Aaron Rodgers would end up in New York. There were multiple sales activations included throughout the show, and much of the fun content that took place on stage came from the creators. Because the FAN crew were allowed to do what they do best, the station produced a successful event. Had that been an ‘all departments contribute’ approach, it’d have not been the same show.
What Dan Mason said in Las Vegas was accurate. Radio has to get back to having fun but it also has to be unafraid to take risks. I fear that we worry so much about the ‘what ifs’ and the potential noise on social media that we’re killing creativity, and the next big idea.
If I asked you to list five GREAT sports radio promotions today, could you? And I’m not talking about golf tournaments, charitable bowling events, host debates or bar remotes. If I ask this same question in five years and we’re in the same spot, that’s going to say a lot about where we are as an industry. We have to excite ourselves, our listeners, and our advertisers because when we showcase our creativity in a way that no other medium can, we make a statement, which results in increased attention, and financial investment.
Some of that creative spirit is still alive. You see it in Boston with WEEI’s Jimmy Fund Telethon, and if you attended the Michael Kay Show 20-year anniversary special or Barstool’s Upfront, you saw what great planning, and execution looks like. But I also remember The Fanatic’s Celebrity Week, The Millen Man March in Detroit, Ticketfest in Dallas, Wing Bowl in Philadelphia, and 790 The Zone in Atlanta becoming a national sensation by creating multiple home run events.
I don’t believe enough brands today create events that deliver meaningful impact. Yet they’re needed. When done right, brands ascend to a different level. Sports radio has too many sharp, creative minds to not be creating the biggest and most successful promotions in all of media. If you work in programming and your station isn’t producing promotions that generate recall across the format, national media attention or revenues that change the fate of your next quarter, it’s time to step up your game. If you don’t, the interns, street team, and receptionist may soon be deciding the future direction of your brand’s promotional strategy.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Barrett Blogs
Reflecting on the 2023 BSM Summit
“Barrett Media president Jason Barrett reflects on last week’s BSM Summit in Los Angeles.”

Published
2 months agoon
March 27, 2023
One of the best parts about the world of sports is that every season ends with one team being crowned champion. It doesn’t exactly work that way managing a media company, even though we invest the same amount of time leading up to the BSM Summit, our equivalent of the Super Bowl or WrestleMania.
Having had a few days to recover and reflect after last week’s Summit in Los Angeles, I know that what we did last week was special. I’m a perfectionist and have a hard time patting myself on the back because I know there’s plenty we can do better, but last week, we hit a homerun. The venues at USC were perfect, the signage was spectacular, the tech ran well, the speakers were awesome, the crowd was great, and the sponsorship support was outstanding. It’s the first time I’ve walked away from an event and felt we accomplished what we set out to do. If time allows, check out Garrett Searight’s piece on some of the key takeaways from the show.
In 2018, Mitch Rosen invited me to utilize his space at Audacy Chicago to take a shot at trying to execute an event for PDs. Now here we are five years later with a few hundred people joining us from all across the industry. It’s pretty incredible. We’re only successful because a lot of people have come together to make sure we are. Without the speakers, sponsors, and staff around me stepping up to get things done, I’d just be a guy with an idea incapable of executing it.
In the next week or so we’ll be sharing video clips from the show on the BSM social media pages. I’m also planning to make full sessions available via on-demand for free for those who attended the show in California. If you didn’t come to the event and want to watch it online, it will be available for a small fee. Stay tuned for further details.
What matters most to me with the Summit is that folks in the room get something out of it. I thought many of our speakers delivered a ton of value this year, and there were a few WOW moments along the way as well. Colin and Rome were outstanding as expected, and Jay Glazer and Al Michaels’ speeches had everyone hanging on their next words. I thought the Shawn Michaels and Jack Rose led sessions were outside the box and well received, and I was beyond impressed by Joy Taylor, Mina Kimes, and Amanda Brown. We used 14 hours in that room to explore issues dealing with management, research, technology, programming, talent and social media, so it gave everyone a little bit of everything, which was the goal.
We did have a little bit of friction on stage during the Aircheck on Campus session, which wasn’t a bad thing. Personalities and programmers have passionate conversations inside the office every day. Rob, Mark and Scott just happened to have one on stage. All three are smart, talented, and willing to be candid. I thought that was healthy for the room.
I know networking is important at these type of events and there was plenty of opportunity for folks to do that. I look at it like this, if you can get face time with others, meet your heroes or folks you admire and pick up some ideas and insight in the process to elevate your business, that should justify it being worthy of a few days out of the office.
As crazy as it may sound, I step away from each of these events asking my team ‘is that the last one?’ I know I can create and execute a great conference, and I enjoy doing it, but I also don’t want to invest eight months of time building a show that becomes predictable and stale. It’s why I change speakers and topics frequently. This year’s lineup was phenomenal, and I’m so pleased with who we featured on stage and had in the room, but the competitor in me will also look back and say ‘Bill Simmons, Ice Cube and Lincoln Riley Should’ve Been On Stage Too!‘

If we do host an event in 2024, it will take place in either Boston, Chicago, Dallas or New York. You can cast your vote on BSMSummit.com.
I want to thank everyone who stopped me last week to share how much they enjoy this event. That support means a lot. I think Good Karma Brands broke a record with 20+ employees in attendance, and iHeart was also well represented, which was great to see. I was also excited to have 15-20 college students in the room. The more we can educate the next generation, the better it is for all of us. I also was thrilled to learn a few of our partners and attendees made time to arrange further business conversations. If two groups can help each other, that’s what it’s all about.
But as much as I love my radio brothers and sisters, I’ve noticed more folks showing up the past two years from areas outside of sports radio. That’s both exhilarating and concerning. This year we had folks in the room from WWE, Amazon, The Volume, Omaha Productions, Dirty Mo Media, Barstool Sports, Spotify, Blue Wire, Locked On, BetRivers, Bleav, etc.. I hope that trend continues because sports media is a lot larger of a business than sports radio. As I told the room, we’re not in the radio business, television business, audio or video business, we are in the content business. That covers a lot more ground for brands than focusing on one specific platform.
I’ve been on cloud nine for a few days because overall, this went as well as I could ask for. If there’s one thing I’d like to make better it’s that I hear from a lot of folks throughout the year who say they want to learn, meet new people and give themselves a competitive edge yet when an event exists that can help them do that, they’re not in the room. Some of my radio friends didn’t come because they weren’t asked to speak. Others said they couldn’t make it because their company wouldn’t cover the costs. A few said they thought the Summit was only for programming people not managers or sellers.
First, growing and selling an audience should matter to everyone not just programmers and hosts. GM’s and Sales Managers can gain a lot at this show. So can advertisers and agencies. I’m hoping to change that in the future. Second, I can’t tell you whether or not to prioritize attending but groups outside of radio are passionate about sports audio and video, and they’re finding ways to be in the room. At some point, you have to decide if investing in knowledge, ideas and relationships matters to you and your business. Your employer isn’t going to cover everything you want to do so especially when the economy isn’t strong. Sometimes you have to invest time and resources in yourself.
Many of you reading this website know my track record in the radio industry. I built my career in radio. My passion for the business remains strong. I consult brands all across the country, and root for the industry’s success. It’s why I sink my heart and soul into this event and share all that I do over two days because I want to help people grow their businesses.
But it is strange that over the course of four live events I’ve still not had one current radio CEO sit down for an in-depth sports media business conversation. It’d be one thing if they were pitched and I turned them down but that’s not the case. I’ve had great conversations and support outside of radio from Jimmy Pitaro, Eric Shanks, Erika Ayers, and John Skipper. Jeff Smulyan has been a huge supporter taking part in our awards ceremony, and we’ve had high ranking TV executives in the room watching the show. Maybe things will change in 2024 but whether they do or don’t, I’m going to focus on helping brands and individuals who gain value from this two day event, and continue challenging this industry to think and act differently.

Now that the 2023 BSM Summit is over, my focus shifts to supporting my clients and gearing up for a massive challenge, hosting our first BNM Summit for news media professionals. The conference will take place in Nashville, TV on September 13-14 at Vanderbilt University. I’ll be announcing the first group of speakers in April after the NAB. Tickets will go on sale at that time too.
I know it won’t be easy but I tend to do my best work when I’m out of my comfort zone. This is a space I have passion for and feel I can add something to so there’s only one thing left to do, get to work, and put together the news media equivalent of what we just created for sports media professionals last week in Los Angeles. That may be a tall order but if anyone is ready to meet the challenge head on, yours truly is certainly up to the task.
Thanks again for a spectacular time in Los Angeles. Onward and upward we go!

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.