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There’s Not One Answer Out There For Spencer Hall

“I feel like if you talk about what LSU has meant to people that follow LSU or if you follow the history of USC football in LA, you get some interesting stories that haven’t necessarily been covered as well or as closely””

Demetri Ravanos




Spencer Hall is currently unemployed.

Maybe the average sports fan doesn’t get how strange that is, but to Scott Van Pelt, it’s a truth he finds hard to accept.

“He’s completely unique,” SVP told me in an email. “Brilliant. Uproariously funny. Nobody sees things like he does.”

I grew up in Alabama. I went to the University of Alabama. Until 2016, I was very much one of those Bama fans – the type that couldn’t let any opposing fanbase feel joy or express team pride without feeling the need to remind them how superior my team was. That changed when I discovered Everyday Should be Saturday, the site that hosted Hall’s columns and his podcast, The Shutdown Fullcast.

“I had none,” Hall says when I asked him if he had any goals of changing the way fans thought about college football when he launched Everyday Should be Saturday fifteen years ago. “I just enjoyed writing. That was it. I finally found a way of saying what I wanted to say and a community all at the same time. That’s pretty great if you get that once or twice in your life, and I did!”

Hall and his community taught me to embrace the fact that college football is the dumbest sport on the planet. The culture surrounding it is unfathomable to those that didn’t grow up with it. That is what makes it so much damn fun to watch and talk about.

The real testament to Hall’s writing talent is when he throws a curve ball and blows your mind with the perfect, poignant metaphor. The perfect breakdown of the Tuscaloosa crowd’s response to Tennessee Vols defensive back Rashaan Gaulden giving them the middle finger was written by the same guy that intertwined Tom Waits’s “God’s Away on Business,” life in the Florida suburbs, and an iconic play from the 1993 Sugar Bowl to illustrate the moral compromise you have to accept in order to be a college football fan.

That play was Alabama safety George Teague running down Miami’s Lamar Thomas and stripping the ball away, when it appeared the Canes receiver was going to sprint into the end zone untouched. The play is iconic amongst the Bama fanbase, and the reality is that it didn’t count. A linebacker had lined up offsides, so while all of us that were in the Louisiana Superdome that night had just witnessed something amazing, while that highlight is shown over and over again in Bryant-Denny Stadium before every game, according to the record books, it never happened.

I told Hall that I have always thought that column was his masterpiece. He thanked me and then launched into an explanation of why that non-play resonates with fans that reminds why Bomani Jones said Spencer Hall’s voice is “all at once highly educated and rural Southern.”


“I think the reason people are so passionate in the sport is that it is anchored in a lot more than the sport itself. I think those moments themselves are often free floating in people’s memories and don’t really budge when in fact they are tied to very specific things and very specific people in your life,” Hall says. “College football isn’t the only place that happens, but it happens particularly in college sports because the communities are closer, the locales are often smaller and/or less well-defined. They’re less covered territory than what capital-letter mass media tended to write about, you know?

“We all know how New York felt about Joe DiMaggio in the 1940s and 50s because there was an entire apparatus pointed at it. I feel like if you talk about what LSU has meant to people that follow LSU or if you follow the history of USC football in LA, you get some interesting stories that haven’t necessarily been covered as well or as closely”

He has a different favorite column though. Hall points to a piece he co-authored alongside Holly Anderson that featured the duo sending up a past ESPN trope of debating “what is most now”.

Hall called those kinds of debates “the foundation for the rotten, confrontational talking head type vibe that dominates how we talk about sports now.” Not only did it feel good to goof on them, but it felt good to notice others enjoying those tropes being goofed on.

“It’s just a dialog with some kind of oddball photoshop thrown in. It was the first time when I thought ‘Oh goodness, this is extremely fun, and other folks seem to think so too.’”

If the Covid-19 pandemic has given us anything, it is time. In Hall’s case, it is what led to the furlough from Vox Media and SB Nation that then turned into him taking a buyout. He says that has given him a chance to think. Like anyone else, he is eagerly awaiting the return of sports, but it’s not the action on the field he misses most.

“The value in it for me is talking about them in the community and the connection. I think that’s the thing that gets really addictive. It’s the connection with readers or listeners, or the people that follow you for the exact cash value of zero dollars on Twitter.”

For Hall, sports and college football in particular, will always be a vessel. He describes it as using the sport “as a side door” to the story he really wants to tell or the point he really wants to make. College football seems to be the sport perfectly built for that style of writing.

“What he gets so well about [college football] is that it is a decidedly human thing. What is interesting about it is all the weirdos that are surrounding this thing,” ESPN’s Bomani Jones says of Spencer Hall. “This is an industry that is fueled by regular people that take their hard-earned money and give it to the football team, not necessarily for tickets. Like, they tithe to it!”

The next story Spencer Hall wants to tell is about college football. The vessel will be the Old West. He and three other writers that recently took buyouts from Vox Media have teamed up with artist Tyson Whiting to create The Sinful Seven: Sci-Fi Western Legends of the NCAA.

The Sinful Seven: Sci-fi Western Legends of the NCAA

It is an illustrated e-book that will use a Western motif to tell the story of the founding of the NCAA. The five are selling it using a pay-what-you-want model, which so far has been pretty successful.

“What makes this a lot of fun is the ties are already there,” Hall says of the project. “Calling something like the early days of college athletics and the foundation of the NCAA, something like the fall of the Old West, that’s not a stretch. That’s how frontiers usually go.  It starts with people doing whatever they want, then someone tries to establish an order and not necessarily doing that out of altruism.”

Hall is quick to give Whiting credit for where the book stands right now. He says that it is the illustrations that will make The Sinful Seven memorable.

“Tyson’s work is going to be the only one anybody remembers. People might as well know his name.”

Pre-orders for The Sinful Seven are just the latest piece of evidence of the devotion of Hall’s audience. When it was announced that he, Richard Johnson, Jason Kirk, and Alex Kirshner would be furloughed by Vox, advertisers Homefield Apparel and Cowbucker released special products to raise money for them. Hundreds of fans took to Twitter to directly call out Vox for not understanding what they had in Hall and his cohorts at the recently launched college football boutique site Banner Society.

That devotion, in addition to his talent, would make Spencer Hall an attractive addition for any sports media brand. It could also make it possible for him to find success on his own if he wanted to launch something on his own. He certainly has the talent to generate enough written and podcasting content to make whatever subscription price tag he settles on worth it to his fans.

Hall knows that the debate between starting his own platform versus sending out résumés is one he’ll have to have with himself eventually. Sure, The Athletic just laid off a number of writers and ESPN talent have been asked to take pay cuts, but at some point those brands and others like them will be ready to hire again. When they are, Hall is likely going to be very high on everyone’s wishlist.

It’s rare to find a sports writer that turns to the wisdom of French Enlightenment era philosophers when thinking about their next move. Jason Whitlock didn’t mention relying on the wisdom of Descartes when he was asked about starting his own media brand. Clay Travis didn’t talk about Immanuel Kant when stories were written about the expansion of Outkick the Coverage. That’s where Hall is different.

“There’s an old story, often attributed to Voltaire, but that attribution isn’t exactly solid historically speaking,” he says. The story involves the night of the man’s death. A priest comes to his bedside and asks if he renounces Satan.

10 Things You Should Know About Voltaire - HISTORY

“In the story, the character, Voltaire or whoever it is, says ‘Now now now, this isn’t the time to be making enemies,'” Hall says and we share a laugh. “In terms of what’s next, whether you could do it independently or with a group of people or corporate partners, I don’t think there is one answer out there. That’s not just for me. That’s for everyone. It’s not an industry strong on stability right now, so keeping every imaginable platform or option imaginable that you can do is a real strong play across the board.”

What Hall has created in the past would be impossible to duplicate, even for him. His reputation both amongst his audience and his peers is such though that anyone interested in working with Hall knows that he is the type of talent that keeps you looking forward instead of back.

BSM Writers

Amanda Brown Has Embraced The Bright Lights of Hollywood

“My whole goal was that I didn’t need people to like me; I needed people to respect me.”

Derek Futterman




The tragic passing of Kobe Bryant and eight others aboard a helicopter, including his 13-year-old daughter Gianna, sent shockwaves around the world of sports, entertainment, and culture. People traveled to Los Angeles following the devastating news and left flowers outside the then-named STAPLES Center, the arena which Bryant called home for much of his career, demonstrating the magnitude of the loss. Just across the street from the arena, Amanda Brown and the staff at ESPN Los Angeles 710 had embarked in ongoing breaking news coverage, lamentation, and reflection.

It included coverage of a sellout celebration of life for Kobe and his daughter and teams around the NBA opting to take 8-second and 24-second violations to honor Bryant, who wore both numbers throughout his 20-year NBA career. They currently hang in the rafters at Arena, making Bryant the only player in franchise history to have two numbers retired.

During this tumultuous time, Bryant’s philosophy served as a viable guiding force, something that Brown quickly ascertained in her first month as the station’s new program director.

“I had people that were in Northern California hopping on planes to get here,” Brown said. “You didn’t even have to ask people [to] go to the station; people were like, ‘I’m on my way.’ It was the way that everybody really came together to do really great radio, and we did it that day and we did it the next day and we did it for several days.”

The 2023 BSM Summit is quickly approaching, and Brown will be attending the event for the first time since 2020. During her first experience at the BSM Summit in New York, Brown had just become a program director and was trying to assimilate into her role. Because of this, she prioritized networking, building contacts, and expressing her ideas to others in the space. This year, she looks forward to connecting with other program directors and media professionals around the country while also seeking to learn more about the nuances of the industry.

“The Summit is kind of like a meeting of the minds,” Brown said. “It’s people throughout the country and the business…. More than anything, [the first time] wasn’t so much about the panels as it was about the people.”

Growing up in Orange County, Brown had an interest in the Los Angeles Lakers from a young age, being drawn to play-by-play broadcaster Chick Hearn. Brown refers to Hearn as inspiration to explore a career in broadcasting. After studying communications at California State University in Fullerton, she was afforded an opportunity to work as a producer at ESPN Radio Dallas 103.3 FM by program director Scott Masteller, who she still speaks to on a regular basis. It was through Masteller’s confidence in her, in addition to support from operations manager Dave Schorr, that helped make Brown feel more comfortable working in sports media.

“I never felt like I was a woman in a male-dominated industry,” Brown said. “I always just felt like I was a part of the industry. For me, I’ve kind of always made it my goal to be like, ‘I deserve to be here; I deserve a seat at the table.’”

Brown quickly rose up the ranks when she began working on ESPN Radio in Bristol, Conn., working as a producer for a national radio show hosted by Mike Tirico and Scott Van Pelt, along with The Sports Bash with Erik Kuselias. Following five-and-a-half years in Bristol, Brown requested a move back to California and has worked at ESPN Los Angeles 710 ever since. She began her tenure at the station serving as a producer for shows such as Max and Marcellus and Mason and Ireland.

Through her persistence, work ethic and congeniality, Brown was promoted to assistant program director in July 2016. In this role, she helped oversee the station’s content while helping the entity maintain live game broadcast rights and explore new opportunities to augment its foothold, including becoming the flagship radio home of the Los Angeles Rams.

“Don’t sit back and wait for your managers or your bosses to come to you and ask what you want to do,” Brown advised. “Go after what you want, and that’s what I’ve always done. I always went to my managers and was like, ‘Hey, I want to do this. Give me a chance; let me do that.’ For the most part, my managers have been receptive and given me those opportunities.”

When executive producer Dan Zampillo left the station to join Spotify to work as a sports producer, Brown was subsequently promoted to program director where she has helped shape the future direction of the entity. From helping lead the brand amid its sale to Good Karma Brands in the first quarter of 2022; to revamping the daily lineup with compelling local programs, Brown has gained invaluable experience and remains keenly aware of the challenges the industry faces down the road. For sports media outlets in Los Angeles, some of the challenge is merely by virtue of its geography.

“We’re in sunny Southern California where there’s a lot of things happening,” Brown said. “We’re in the middle of Hollywood. People have a lot of opportunities – you can go to the mountains; you can go to the beach. I think [our market] is more about entertainment than it is about actual hard-core sports. Yes, obviously you have hard-core Lakers fans; you have hard-core Dodgers fans, but a majority of the fans are pretty average sports fans.”

Because of favorable weather conditions and an endless supply of distractions, Brown knows that the way to attract people to sports talk radio is through its entertainment value. With this principle in mind, she has advised her hosts not to worry so much about the specific topics they are discussing, but rather to ensure they are entertaining listeners throughout the process.

“People know the four letters E-S-P-N mean sports, but really our focus is more on entertainment more than anything,” Brown said. “I think the [talent] that stick out the most are the ones that are the most entertaining.”

Entertaining listeners, however, comes through determining what they are discussing and thinking about and providing relevant coverage about those topics. Even though it has not yet been legalized in the state of California, sports gambling content has been steadily on the rise since the Supreme Court made a decision that overturned the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act established in Murphy v. National Collegiate Athletic Association (2018). Nonetheless, Brown and ESPN Los Angeles 710 have remained proactive, launching a sports gambling show on Thursday nights to try to adjust to the growing niche of the industry.

Even though she has worked in producing and programming for most of her career, Brown is eager to learn about the effect sports gambling has on audio sales departments. At the same time, she hopes to be able to more clearly determine how the station can effectuate its coverage if and when it becomes legal in their locale.

“I know that a lot of other markets have that,” Brown said regarding the legalization of sports gambling. “For me, I’m interested to hear from people who have that in their markets and how they’ve monetized that and the opportunity.”

No matter the content, though, dedicated sports radio listeners are genuinely consuming shows largely to hear certain talent. Brown recalls receiving a compliment on Twitter earlier this quarter where a listener commented that he listens to ESPN Los Angeles 710 specifically for Sedano and Kap. Evidently, it acted as a tangible sign that her philosophy centered around keeping people engrossed in the content is working, and that providing the audience what it wants to hear is conducive to success.

At this year’s BSM Summit, Brown will be participating on The Wheel of Content panel, presented by Core Image Studio, featuring ESPN analyst Mina Kimes and FOX Sports host Joy Taylor. Through their discussion, she intends to showcase a different perspective of what goes into content creation and the interaction that takes place between involved parties.

“A lot of times in the past, all the talent were on one panel; all the programmers were on one panel,” Brown said. “To put talent and a programmer together, I think it’s an opportunity for people to hear both sides on certain issues.”

According to the most recent Nielsen Total Audience Report, AM/FM (terrestrial) radio among persons 18-34 has a greater average audience than television. The statistical anomaly, which was forecast several years earlier, came to fruition most likely due to emerging technologies and concomitant shifts in usage patterns.

Simultaneously, good content is required to captivate consumers, and radio, through quantifiable and qualifiable metrics, has been able to tailor its content to the listening audience and integrate it across multiple platforms of dissemination. The panel will give Brown a chance to speak in front of her peers and other industry professionals about changes in audio consumption, effectuated by emerging technologies and concomitant shifts in usage patterns.

Yet when it comes to radio as a whole, the patterns clearly point towards the proliferation of digital content – whether those be traditional radio programs or modernized podcasts. Moreover, utilizing various elements of presentation provides consumers a greater opportunity of finding and potentially engaging with the content.

“We do YouTube streaming; obviously, we stream on our app,” Brown said. “We’ve even created, at times, stream-only shows whether it’s stream-only video or stream-only on our app. We all know that people want content on-demand when they want it. I think it’s about giving them what they want.”

As a woman in sports media, Brown is cognizant about having to combat misogyny from those inside and outside of the industry, and is grateful to have had the support of many colleagues. In holding a management position in the second-largest media market in the United States, she strives to set a positive example to aspiring broadcasters. Additionally, she aims to be a trusted and accessible voice to help empower and give other women chances to work in the industry – even if she is not universally lauded.

“I’ve kind of always made it my goal to be like, ‘I’m no different than anyone else – yes, I’m a female – but I’m no different than anyone else,’” Brown expressed. “My whole goal was that I didn’t need people to like me; I needed people to respect me.”

Through attending events such as the BSM Summit and remaining immersed in sports media and the conversation at large about the future of sports media, Brown can roughly delineate how she can perform her job at a high level.

Although the genuine future of this business is always subject to change, she and her team at ESPN Los Angeles 710 are trying to come up with new ideas to keep the content timely, accurate, informative, and entertaining. She is content in her role as program director with no aspirations to become a general manager; however, remaining in her current role requires consistent effort and a penchant for learning.

“Relationships are very important overall in this business whether you’re a programmer or not,” Brown said. “Relationships with your talent; relationships with your staff. If you invest in your people, then they’re going to be willing to work hard for you and do what you ask them to do.”

The 2023 BSM Summit is mere days away, and those from Los Angeles and numerous other marketplaces will make the trip to The Founder’s Club at the Galen Center at the University of Southern California (USC).

Aside from Brown, Kimes and Taylor, there will be other voices from across the industry sharing their thoughts on aspects of the industry and how to best shape it going forward, including Colin Cowherd, Rachel Nichols, Al Michaels and Eric Shanks. More details about the industry’s premiere media conference can be found at

“I’m excited to be a female program director amongst male program directors for the first time and get a seat at the table and represent that there can be diversity in this position,” Brown said. “We don’t see a lot of it, but… there is an opportunity, and I hope I can be an example for other people out there [to show] that it’s possible.”

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BSM Writers

Pat McAfee Has Thrown Our Business Into a Tailspin

Yet even with all the accomplishments he’s been able to achieve, McAfee is still anxious and unsatisfied with the state of his show and his career.

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When you have one of the hottest talk shows in America, you’re always up to something. That’s the case for the most popular sports talk show host in America – Pat McAfee. 

The former Pro Bowl punter was on top of the world on Wednesday. With over 496,000 concurrent viewers watching at one point, McAfee was able to garner an exclusive interview with frequent guest Aaron Rodgers who announced his intention to play for the Jets.

Yet even with all the accomplishments he’s been able to achieve — a new studio, consistent high viewership, a syndication deal with SportsGrid TV, a four-year, $120 million deal with FanDuel — McAfee is still anxious and unsatisfied with the state of his show and his career.

At the end of the day, he is human and he’s admitted that balancing his show, his ESPN gig with “College Gameday,” and his WWE obligations has taken a toll on him.

McAfee and his wife are expecting their first child soon and he recently told The New York Post he might step away from his deal with FanDuel. Operating his own company has come with the responsibility of making sure his studio is up and running, finding people to operate the technology that puts his show on the air, negotiating with huge behemoths like the NFL for game footage rights, booking guests, booking hotels, implementing marketing plans and other tasks that most on-air personalities rarely have to worry about.

McAfee says he’s looking for a network that would be able to take control of those duties while getting more rest and space to spend time with family while focusing strictly on hosting duties. FanDuel has its own network and has the money to fund such endeavors but is just getting started in the content game. McAfee needs a well-known entity to work with who can take his show to the next level while also honoring his wishes of keeping the show free on YouTube.

The question of how he’s going to be able to do it is something everyone in sports media will be watching. As The Post pointed out in their story, McAfee hasn’t frequently stayed with networks he’s been associated with in the past for too long. He’s worked with Westwood One, DAZN, and Barstool but hasn’t stayed for more than a year or two.

There’s an argument to be made that the latter two companies weren’t as experienced as a network when McAfee signed on with them compared to where they are today which could’ve pushed the host to leave. But at the end of the day, networks want to put money into long-term investments and it’s easy to see a network passing on working with McAfee for fear that he’ll leave them astray when he’s bored. 

It’ll also be difficult for McAfee to find a network that doesn’t put him behind a paywall. Amazon and Google are rumored to be potential new homes. But both are trying to increase subscribers for their respective streaming services.

It will be difficult to sell Amazon on investing money to build a channel on YouTube – a rival platform. For Google, they may have the tech infrastructure to create television-like programming but they aren’t an experienced producer, they’ve never produced its own live, daily talk show, and investing in McAfee’s show doesn’t necessarily help increase the number of subscribers watching YouTube TV.

Networks like ESPN, CBS, NBC, and Fox might make sense to partner with. But McAfee faces the possibility of being censored due to corporate interests. Each of these networks also operates its networks or streaming channels that air talk programming of their own. Investing in McAfee could cannibalize the programming they already own.

And if McAfee works with a traditional network that isn’t ESPN, it could jeopardize his ability to host game casts for Omaha or analyze games on Gameday. It’s not impossible but would definitely be awkward on days that McAfee does his show remotely from locations of ESPN games with ESPN banners and signage that is visible in the background.

If SportsGrid has the money to invest in McAfee, they might be his best bet. They have all the attributes McAfee needs and they already have a relationship with him. It is probably unlikely that he’ll be censored and he would even be able to maintain a relationship with FanDuel – a company SportsGrid also works alongside.  

Roku is another option — they already work with Rich Eisen — but they would move his show away from YouTube, something McAfee should resist since the majority of smart TV users use YT more than any other app.

If the NFL gave McAfee editorial independence, they would make the perfect partner but the likelihood of that happening is slim to none. NFL Media has independence but it was clear during the night of the Damar Hamlin incident that they will do whatever is necessary to stay away from serious topics that make the league look bad until it’s totally unavoidable. 

It’s hard to think of a partner that matches up perfectly with McAfee’s aspirations. But once again, at the moment, he’s on top of the world so anything is possible. The talk show host’s next move will be even more interesting to watch than the other fascinating moves he’s already made that have put the sports media industry in a swivel.

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BSM Writers

5 Tips For Networking At the BSM Summit

“Have a plan and don’t leave home without it.”

Jeff Caves




Bring your game plan if you attend the BSM Summit in LA next Tuesday and Wednesday. No matter your purpose for attending: to learn, get a job, speak, or sell an idea, you must be able to read the room. To do that, it helps to know who will be there and how you can cure their pain. 

Have a plan and don’t leave home without it. If you have time, buy How to Work a Room by Susan Roane. If you don’t, just follow these five tips:

  1. INTRODUCE YOURSELF: Before you arrive at The Summit, figure out what you want, who you want to meet, and what you will say. Once you get there, scout out the room and see if anyone of those people are available. Talk to speakers after they have spoken- don’t worry if you miss what the next speaker says. You are there to meet new people! Most speakers do not stick around for the entire schedule, and you don’t know if they will attend any after-parties, so don’t risk it. Refine your elevator pitch and break the ice with something you have in common. Make sure you introduce yourself to Stephanie, Demetri and Jason from BSM. They know everybody and will help you if they can.  
  2. GET A NAME TAG: Don’t assume that name tags will be provided. Bring your own if you and make your name clear to read. If you are looking to move to LA or want to sell a system to book better guests, put it briefly under your name. Study this to get better at remembering names.
  3. LOSE THE NOTEBOOK: When you meet folks, ensure your hands are free. Have a business card handy and ask for one of theirs. Remember to look people in the eye and notice what they are doing. If they are scanning the room, pause until they realize they are blowing you off. Do whatever it takes to sound upbeat and open. Don’t let their clothes, hair, or piercings distract from your message. You don’t need to wear a suit and tie but do bring your best business casual wear. A blazer isn’t a bad idea either. 
  4. SHUT UP FIRST! The art of knowing when to end the convo is something you will have to practice. You can tell when the other person’s eye starts darting or they are not using body language that tells you the convo will continue. You end it by telling them you appreciate meeting them and want to connect via email. Ask for a business card. Email is more challenging to ignore than a LinkedIn request, and you can be more detailed in what you want via email. 
  5. WORK THE SCHEDULE: Know who speaks when. That is when you will find the speakers hanging around. Plan your lunch outing to include a few fellow attendees. Be open and conversational with those around you. I am a huge USC fan, so I would walk to McKays– a good spot with plenty of USC football memorabilia on the walls. Sometimes you can find the next day’s speakers at the Day 1 after party. Need a bar? Hit the 901 Club for cheap beer, drinks, and food. 

You’re welcome. 

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Barrett Media Writers

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